Attachments on Weapons

[General Naga]

I really like that idea. I've always thought it would be good to be able to bring the mounted MGs to a good spot rather than have them put there by the mapper.

I think what we have here is a MkI and MkII of an idea. Your idea Nada would be very difficult to implement well where as the other idea from Commissar would be comparatively easy.

So what I suspect we'll end up doing it Commissar's idea in first release and then possible refining it to include Nadanova's idea as well in a later patch.

 

[Nadanova]

Commissar's idea is great yet I was just building on it, if the latter could be implemented somehow I think it would add a lot of realisim to the mod.

 

[Nemesis-Xero]

I don't know if anyone here has played Red Orchestra, but there was a similar system in place in that game. Using the sights of a weapon while standing or crouching, your weapon would 'wobble' slightly, because it's obviously difficult to remain perfectly still. But, if you were near any surface and aimed your weapon as if you were placing it up against that surface, your weapon would be still because you were 'resting' it on the surface. It worked looking around corners (weapon against the wall) and looking over cover (on top of sandbags or any other surface you could look over). I have no idea how they implemented it, but it's something to think about.

 

[General Naga]

That would be very cool but likewise I have no idea how it would be done. Perhaps a compromise system would be to have helpers which trigger better accuracy when firing out of specific places such as windows and firing slots.

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

Yea, Red Orchestra has it down in terms of being able to stable your rifle or weapon on pretty much any surface. A little icon shows up to let you know you are stabling your weapon.

For MG's and weapons that need to be deployed the same thing happens, you see the icon and you push action key and your mg sets up. You are unable to move unless you "de-pack?" your weapon and move.

Probably one of the best features in the game.

Going back to the discussion of attachments, I think the only attachments should be the bayonet and rifle grenade. Bayonet on every weapon that would realistically have one and rifle grenade only with that certain class.

 

[General Naga]

The problem with Crysis Attachments (not sure if I've mentioned this before) is that theres no delay for attaching them. So a player could be firing one second and have bayonet fixed half a second later if they used a macro or a whole second if they don't.

Personally I quite like the idea of having the delay while an animation of the bayonet being attached or the rifle grenade being setup. That's just my personal view though.

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

it only takes about 2-3 seconds to put a bayonet on, it wouldnt need to be that long of a delay, rifle nade I'm sure isnt too much longer either.

 

[General Naga]

The rifle grenade took quite a long time to setup. It would take me (untrained) about 8-10 seconds if everything was layed on a bench infront of me. They'd have to get it out of pouches etc... but they would also be trained. 

With the Bayonet it might in theory take only a few seconds to put on BUT how quickly could you put it on if your hands were shaking with fear?

That all being said I'd hate to have long transitions like in reality. However having 0 time to transfer does seem a little extreme.

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

I will have to read up on the rifle nade, I just assumed it was attaching the end piece to the barrel and firing the rifle..? lol

I think its hard to say "every" person is effected by fear in negative ways. For some it may allow them to perform faster and more efficient, for others, maybe their hands do shake and it could impede them in many things.

But also remember, all of the characters, especially most german troops, have seen combat before, sometimes on multiple fronts. Combat doesnt "scare" them like it would some draftee. I think its unfair to assume that every single one is green. At least some of the men were battle hardened soldiers.

I think the best way to do it would be to have some kind of bayonet attachment animation that would last 1-3 seconds, maybe you can select it at the weapon attachment screen, maybe not. Same thing for the rifle nade but maybe it takes longer?

 

[General Naga]

Agreed an animation is the answer. We might not be able to use the attachment system and instead have to opt for cheat method of having them as separate weapons which appear to be attachments by using clever animations.

 

[Nemesis-Xero]

One thing about the rifle grenade attachment (didn't take the time to see if I had mentioned this before) is that I'm fairly certain the addition to the rifle itself would be set up before the soldier went into combat. So, all they would have to do is stick the rifle grenade on the end. Unless they used a special round to propel the grenade, not sure about that. But still, it wouldn't take that long. Something between Day of Defeat: Source and Forgotten Hope 2 would be alright, I'd say.

 

[General Naga]

I think a special round would have been required and as far as I know they wouldn't have gone in with them fitted. Just in case the ran into the enemy. FH2 does have a very long setup time for the rifle grenade - how long does it take in Day of Defeat?

 

[Commisar]

I don't think you should be able to use Iron Sights while bayonets are fixed (a la Road To Rome), so players don't just run around with it attached all the time.

On another note, with the time taken to fix attachments, perhaps an online tracking system could be worth a look later on? The higher a player's rank (or play time?) the quicker they could fix attachments.

The ability could be conveyed to nearby squad mates (not sure how to fit it in historically, maybe like a sergent urging them on) but it would encourages players to stick together.

 

[General Naga]

I wouldn't stop people using Ironsights when the Bayonet is attached - I would make the rifle a lot more inaccurate so players wouldn't want it fitted unless in confided spaces.

Although it makes some sense for people to get faster at fixing attachments it does raise the issue of making elite players even better and therefore making them harder to catch up.

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

Ya I dont like the idea of making iron sites inoperable with bayonet, its just much harder to shoot straight. I think accuracy from the hip should be extremely bad, with much better accuracy (with sway of course) while using iron sights. I think the only time ppl should be using hip firing is when laying down suppressing fire and when spooked.

Not sure about making attachments go on faster, I'm pretty sure any soldier in ww2 who had used the weapon before would be able to do it at a decent speed, recruit ----> veteran.

 

[Commisar]

Fair enough. But I still think there should be some penalty for having the bayonet fixed....

True there Naga, but it also forces players that want to have the advantage that their XP provides to stick with the team. An Elite lone wolf shouldn't have any advantages over a lone rookie (perhaps with the expetion of snipers).

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

Inaccuracy is probably the best way to penalize the bayonet.

However, having some kind of advantages for sticking with a squad is a definite must.

 

[General Naga]

I think there are two types of advantages:

- Advantages to players already in sections to stick together
- Advantages to players who are lone-wolf to join a section.

For sticking together I'd have the advantage of getting spotting information when a team mate spots an enemy & getting extra points if your near X number members of your section.

For being in a section I'd suggest the advantages of having access to a forward spawn location a.k.a Rally Point, VOIP & the possibility of extra points from working together.

 

[Nemesis-Xero]

I think accuracy from the hip should be extremely bad

Just because you're not looking down the sights doesn't mean the rifle's barrel magically becomes 6m wide. That's one of the things I absolutely hate about CoD4 and 5 (because they're the worst at it right now). It should be more difficult to aim from the hip, but making the rifle itself less accurate is just a terrible idea...

 

[Bob_Bobber0]

right. but one of the only ways to promote smart, tactical play with less rng and more aim down the sites is to make it very hard to hit something while firing from the hip