Drummer, could you elaborate on what you said, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you asked, its vague.
Ani, Your points are similar to flying's except for some cases so I will get to them. As for the AI, I think we both can agree that trying to implement both AI and multi person is just a waste of time and resources due to the amount of work involved to get an AI to function as needed, not even mentioning the high chances of bugs it may have. So either a proper AI system or a proper multi person tank crew, not both.
1. True but a lot less frustration is involved if you die alone due to technical issues, imagine me being a driver and my mumble not working, we run into an ambush but i cant see anything, tank commander is struggling and yelling at me to get out, I simply cant hear him so I just sit there, number of people frustrated: 4. If we constantly keep dying in a multi person crew there are high chances of people pointing fingers and blaming each other and causing a fight completely crippling the so called "well trained tank crew teamwork" I'd rather die alone due to my technical issues than let my other crew members get killed cause of me not being able to use my mic. Also if I can't listen to what my squad leader says in a 1 person tank, I know he wants me to follow him and work as a 2 tank team, I can follow him and then cover him appropriately like how I did in PR knowing I am to follow Flying and cover him and the team as needed, is this possible if I am in a tank as a driver who has no visual contact with the commander? I wont even know what hes trying to tell me.
2. Well ofcourse there will be a squad system in a tank as well, I think 4 tanks per squad is good as far as single person tanks are concerned, Historically speaking Tigers worked in pairs of 2. I read it somewhere sadly I can't remember where. Teamwork is still very much possible even in single person tanks and this is something I'm excited about. As for your second point, that's a valid one, finally! But allow me to reverse positions and compare both scenarios to you. Multi crew tank: There is a small chance, yes a small chance that you can have fun chatting about stuff. Sadly this is the internet, you as a tank commander will be forced to deal with impatient crew men who think its unfair to defend a spawn point where they cant see any enemies or action, and you end up fighting with your own crew mates, also a chance they can kick you out for poor commanding and ride off with the tank singing yankee doodle do. Then is the single person scenario ofc this is far more drastic the person will disobey orders and fly off with the tank and do something dumb. So this is a situation that's equally worse in both scenarios however... Less frustration and hassle here if a person is alone, you dont end up irritating 4 people.
@ Ani: The internet has thought us one thing Ani, 95% of the people on the internet are self entitled princesses who fancy bunny hopping and doing their own thing and blame others. Therefore there's a high chance that in a multi person crew your'e going to end up with idiots, thereby making this argument point completely valid.
3. I don't mind waiting for a polished game either, but it takes a lot less time to develop a single person tank which can be just as polished. This is my argument right here... Less tank, saying you dont mind waiting doesn't mean a thing if you can get the same quality of gameplay in a single person tank, not to mention more possibility of bugs in a multi crew tank due to more scripting and programming, this is especially true with AI.
@ Ani: Interiors aren't necessary? True but it won't be polished then, how's a gunner going to switch through from the periscope to his gunners view? (They did have more than one view port right? ._.)
4. Flying that is exactly why its a disadvantage in a tank crew. Lets say I am a very good gunner, so good I have the knights cross. But I come a little to late to find a 12 year old on my gunners seat, whose new and knows nothing of how to control the gun, I am telling you that I am damn good but to be fair you wouldn't believe a random person thereby turning the tank to be much ineffective. even more so when compared to queuing up for specific roles from the lobby.
5. Again, I am growing tired of that specific point, it is true it happens everywhere and I am unsure if you know a way to counter that but I most certainly do. If I am an infantry and my LMG unit goes afk, true there may be lack of suppressing fire but I'd make use of grenades to obscure vision, using smoke grenades, and ask the rest of my unit to fire on the move while moving to cover, I believe even an smg unit can provide suppressing fire. after we cross the bridge, we provide suppressing fire to allow the smg unit to come to us. I am specifically asking you what you will do if you're in a tank. Not compare this with infantry, different types of units have different types of outcome when under the exact same problems, for example, what if your driver goes afk when crossing the bridge under fire? What then? You tell me this happens to infantry as well.. that's reassuring to say the least.
6. When TW comes out, you expect tank crewmen to be magically well versed in what they are doing? Every experienced player was once a beginner and there has to be a point where one gets into the entire tank crew gig. Regardless of being new to the entire thing. Every player has a right to try anything they like, I hate to admit this because I am allergic to idiots but it sadly is true. When we played together in PR I knew what we were supposed to be doing by following what mmie and ani and litchu were doing, i.e. following by having visual contact on my other squadmates. Tell me this is possible in a tank.. As far as I know it isn't, I mentioned this earlier, stop comparing tanks to infantry they are two things that have colossal differences when compared with the other. Fact is, a 1 person tank is much better suited when you need reliability. Either you are solely to blame or you can praise yourself for maintaining discipline and waiting for the opportune moment to strike.
@ Ani: This is true, the more experience you gain the better you are, but can you say this with certainty in a random game filled with random players?
7. Flying, I mentioned earlier that I am sensitive to this topic cause I will be maining tanks when they come out. I misunderstood it most likely, my apologies. Gameplay complexities are something I am well aware of, regardless this is a factor you need to deal with even in multi person tanks. What if my driver is unaware of how to angle the tank? I'd have a much better job doing it myself in a one person tank, not to mention its a lot more faster in a single person tank.
@ Ani: Are you joking? They will look complex to someone whose completely new to driving a tank, I mean this will virtually be the first time he is hopping into a tank gameplay in any game. Tank controls have always been similar regardless of it being arcade or simulation, I can play tiger vs t34, a tank simulator game with as much ease as I can play tanks in bf4. Why? Extremely similar key mapping for controls. Only difference is in Tiger vs T34 you had to change the engine RPM and change gears etc. Because multi person tank has never been implemented before it will make things a lot more complicated because players are not experienced or well versed in their controls cause this is something never done before... Therefore single person tanks can be considered to be much easier to use atleast, when compared to multi person tanks. Dude.. I don't think that it is possible to bail out of a tank or hijack another tank in this game. I read it somewhere, one of the devs mentioned it in a suggestion thread I wish I knew which one it was. But for the sake of amusement I will answer that, when you bail out you are either one of the following: A dumbass tank crewman, A very unlucky tank crewman or perhaps both, although I would like the crewman to be represented as a tank commander since he was commanding himself to drive the tank. Also.. What if its a tank where one person commands the radio, gun and tank commander what does that make him? A tank commander? A gunner? or a radio ops guy?
Flying we both share the same ideology when it comes to the essence of a game, teamwork is vital and its something I expect every player to follow. If not, then the game is not for them. But teamwork is possible in single player tanks as well. Like Ani said, and I agree with him on this.. Single person tanks are in pure terms of practicality realistic, you alone are capable of representing a well trained crew. Although not realistic in pure terms of technicality. But it is realistic none the less.
You know Ani, I freaking knew you'd debate just for the sake of doing so, I don't know why, but I knew it
Flying, I am currently inclined to believe single person tanks are better, I stated why I believe this to be the case. I have an open mind on this so if you can convince me that multi crew is better, I will be up for multi crew as well but until then facts are facts. I believe that the devs have already started working on tanks, years ago. I think it is safe to assume that one person tanks may be implemented. Just a wild guess also, Mudra hinted... that would perhaps be the case, he is a researcher after all, Mudra a personal plea, can you bring back ask the dragon please :c ?
