Militaria

[Colonel__Klink]

I would have rather made a metal shell for the propane powered noise gun than to try to convert an existing actual gun to that. *scratches head* then again converting a recoil operated machinegun to fire blanks. Would basically need to fix the barrel in place, change out the springs with lighter ones and pull out locking lugs and some designs aren't even that easy!

Lol, I once had a job offer to do firearm conversion work for a prop house in Hollywood. Guys were desperate for people who actually knew the craft of gunsmithing. Didn't go because I couldn't pursue a career in firearms in cali outside of chopping up pieces of history for hollywood. Me and the fiance wouldn't even be able to get carry permits. Whereas here in Colorado I can (and well I have) walk down the street with a .44 single action on my hip.

Funny, my carry gun here now that its cold is a walther p38 in a shoulder holster. Much more comfortable than a inside the waistband holster but to conceal it you need a jacket or something.

 

[VonMudra]

Basically it doesn't harm the actual gun. All the parts are removed, and the gas system is put in place. For WW2 a lot of the guns are simply semi-auto or blank only conversions, but for WW1, since the guns are pretty much never going to be moved anyways, and due to the need to have something akin to a machine gun over what would basically be a really large m1 garand, we compromise with the gas gun. It works, it sound great when tuned up, and looks great. Being in the bunker with it though...well, let's just say my hearing is still a bit numb.

This is an older pic from a few events ago, but still a great group pic of us all:

We've grown quite a bit since that, the New Zealanders have more guys, the Canadians are filtering back, and the German unit continues to grow (as do we, with two new recruits!). Sadly, WW1 went through a slump out here, right around when I joined in back in 2006, after the main trench site was lost due to paintballers/vandels finding it out in the desert, and it had to be abandoned due to insurance reasons (like, they actually tore out all the wood in an underground bunker and used it as fire wood...the whole bunker, of course, became completely destabilized) But we finally got a new site a few years back, and we're getting back into the swing of things.

And hey, if you're ever in So Cal, or what to check us out, we do have some guys from as far away as Arizona, Idaho, and even back east who attend our events:

Great War Historical Society

 

[Colonel__Klink]

You got a proper tripod for the thing? And to be honest the gas system itself isn't so complicated. Just a regulated hose with a sparkplug and a valve that is designed to open just for a brief moment, as well as probably a combustion chamber of sorts right?

Could be real fun. Though I'm not sure if I ever will actually wind up in Cali of my own free will lol. Course I would also need to buy an actual rifle that fits the era(good thing bolt action rifles don't need blank firing adapters technically! lol). All I got that could be "ww1" is a c96 mauser. Everything dates either way before or way after lol.

 

[VonMudra]

Yeah. we do, and yep, that's basically how it works.

As for joining, we generally have loaner gear and weapons for the first couple times out, though after that you're expected to start getting your own things. You basically join a unit, and that unit's leader/authenticity guy will walk you through how to get the stuff for it, where to go, what to buy, etc etc. There's a lot of research involved, and we tend to pride ourselves highly on getting things right, from the basics of the correct cut of uniform or the right rifle (those go without saying in the hobby), to the more nit-picky stuff, like period correct rations and pocket litter.

 

[Colonel__Klink]

The sad thing is that its getting very hard to find acceptable equipment for such a reenactment. Almost makes me want to machine a brand new one up to the old world specs.... But jesus the amount of work involved in that....

Of course it COULD be real fun to create prop guns for simunitions....(paintball cartridges, they are dimensionally different on purpose so you won't accidentally load live rounds) lol imagine a ww1 reenactment like that? would be expensive as **** i just realized....

 

[VonMudra]

Not very hard at all honestly. We use a mixture of original gear and reproduced uniforms, and the rifles run between 250 and 600-700 bucks depending on what you go for. Generally a quality German impression runs around 2000 bucks for all the basic stuff, other impressions cost more or less.

 

[Colonel__Klink]

Not very hard at all honestly. We use a mixture of original gear and reproduced uniforms, and the rifles run between 250 and 600-700 bucks depending on what you go for. Generally a quality German impression runs around 2000 bucks for all the basic stuff, other impressions cost more or less.

I wonder what rifles your picking up. If your picking up a P14 to be an englishman then that's one thing but if your going for a Gewehr 1898(not the karbiner version that was the mainstay in ww2) then your paying a steeper price.

Original Model 1898 Wehrmans Gewehr 8.15x46R for sale (966164780)
MAUSER 8MM 1915 - Mauser Rifles Military

Truth is I'm not sure I'm willing to drop 2k on the sort of thing till I know I like it. Honestly I'm much more apt to buy a nice lever gun so I can do cowboy action instead . Truth is its all more about the guns to me than the history. The history is great and all, but oh the guns. The fantastic engineering of the guns! To marvel at the minds of generations before! Lol.

If I wanted to do the reinactment thing I'd probably order the wool fabric myself and sew the uniform myself based upon the patterns. If nessisary I'd pull out the ol hammer and heat up the forge and dish a helmet out if the cost of helmets were too high(though I know that helmets weren't popular early in the war right?) Might as well make it a full blown hobby right? lol.

 

[VonMudra]

I picked up my Gew98 for 450 bucks, though that was some years back. Most of our guys have connections to places where you get some a Gew98 for 500-600 bucks. As for my Austrian impression, my M95 Steyr was only 350 bucks. Lebels and Bertheirs can go for pretty cheap, 300-400 bucks, thanks to lack of interest in the US for French rifles. SMLEs are around 400 or 500. The most expensive would be Springfields, I've seen those go for upwards of 1000.

The uniforms are already being reproed in that manner, we have guys in the USA and Europe making them. The only one that is hard to get is the French uniform, as there is exactly one guy in the entire USA making the things right, and it's a one man operation. In total though, the reproductions are incredibly beautiful and accurate, most are businesses started by reenactors for reenactors. Most leather gear is a mixture of reproduction and original, the main problem with original gear being how much it's deteriorated over time. We also tend to encourge that, for uniforms and gear, you not wear originals in order to keep them from being destroyed (and they WILL be destroyed). The helmets, we all have originals (repros suck for helmets, and metal holds up well to wear and tear ), and there's even a go to guy for them, who has built an entire business around the restoration of WW1 and WW2 era helmets:

Home - Alexander and Sons German Helmet Restoration

In general though, yeah, the reason we do loaner gear is so people can come out and try it before they drop that kind of money (though no one gets all their kit in one go...hell I'm still acquiring things). Just yeah, if you're ever interested in coming out, go for it.

 

[MausRatte]

So is this a reenactment? Is it like paintball where you actually battle eachother or are you just reenacting?

 

[VonMudra]

It is a non-public reenactment. THis is different than the public stuff where they are generally doing a little skirmish that is per-coordinated and decided. Non-public reenactments are much more like paintball I guess, though we're using real weapons firing blank rounds, and the winner is in no way pre-decided. For WW1, the general goal is to just get into the other's trench and wreck havoc. For WW2, there are generally objectives for each side to accomplish. But winning isn't a major thing, the important thing for us is the living history and producing a realistic experience as best we can, to better understand the hell that was these conflicts.

 

[MausRatte]

But how do you know if you're being fired at if it is just blanks? Can't really say whether or not you've been hit.

 

[Colonel__Klink]

Sad thing... Thinking about the reenacting makes me even more tempted to try to sort out wax based simmunitions lol. Or simply suggest to you guys that you should try airsoft instead . Blanks are fun(I trained in the corps with them) but not quite as fun. lol, imagine dealing with the mg nest then!

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=10516

Sad thing, you'd need some work to make it accurate. Make the bolt straight, work on stock I'm assuming and replace the barrel shell that wraps around the internal airsoft barrel with a longer one.

btw, isn't the p14 Enfield more accurate for reenactment than the smle? Or was that more fore rear guard or something? I just know the USA was making mountains of those for the brits.

But how do you know if you're being fired at if it is just blanks? Can't really say whether or not you've been hit.

You generally have a pretty good idea. Just gotta admit to yourself when your attack was a bad idea and your dead.

 

[VonMudra]

Basically. It's def an honour system, but it generally works out quite nicely. Everyone just generally has the same attitude, it's WW1. If you're in the open and a lot of shots are going your way, you're dead, end of story. It works nicely and looks great. Current rules are that you can take 3 hits in no man's land (in order to keep an attack moving), but any hits taken inside the wire are end of story for you in the assault. Likewise, mortar/gas/grenade/hand to hand is one hit and you're dead. We don't use airsoft for reasons of realism- the sound of airsoft guns simply would be ridiculous to the din of rifle cracks. It's a limitation I'll admit, but it offers a much better experience. As for night combat, trench clubs, pistols, and grenades are the order of the day. Mortars fire actual cardboard and foam projectiles that burst when landing, grenades have black powder charges to pop and make a nice puff of smoke. Gas is represented using yellow smoke grenades (currently, the La Legion Russe use their's quite a lot, and even though it's not real mustard gas, it can be kinda noxious to breath in, so gas masks are rather key. But it's always funny when they have a round explode prematurely in their position

And no, the P14 enfield was used by some British rear formations, but frontline British and Commonwealth units used the SMLE, apart from Canada's brief flirtation with the Ross rifle in the first years of the war. For American, P17 Enfields are quite acceptable though, as most American formations did not, in fact, use Springfields.


EDIT: I should note, there DO exist 'airsoft reenactors', but they are generally very very poor on authenticity. They are more 'WW2-themed airsoft' than actual reenacting, where more of the focus is on the experience and the history than on just killing things.

 

[Colonel__Klink]

I just knew that the US manufactured 1,200,000 p14s for the British so I assumed they'd have made a showing on the field. But yeah I DID know that the p17 was really the unofficial service rifle of the war. Those poorly heat treated springfields of the era make me shudder. Damn good thing they recalled the low serial number springfields and rock island manufactures. Similar vein, from what I've read the Ross overall was a poor rifle.

But yeah, before I spend the money on another old fiddly gun I need to actually buy a modern self loading firearm for myself . My most modern rifle is a Remington 700 that I custom built from the ground up. Wheras the fiance has a vz-58(ak47 style erganomics but more like a sks in design). I carry a old tired .38 or a walther p38 concealed,. The fiance carries a glock 21. Really I've been looking at getting an AR-15 once christmas is over.... Especially since we are trying to get the first Colorado milita started (don't worry, we aren't crazy extremist dingbats like some militia groups out there.... )

 

[volcol]

Contemplating a deac - 1912 SMLE with volley sights ... will be about £400.00 or so - but still in two minds about it.

 

[Colonel__Klink]

Hows the permitting on trying to get that thing in Britain? I know you CAN technically buy it, but you have to get licensing for it.

I think the major question on such a purchase is if you will be able to take it out for shooting or not. Not much point in spending that much money on a wall decoration y'know?

 

[Aniallator]

There are some neat vintage weapons here . . . but still, the number of people who own guns disturbs me . . .

 

[VonMudra]

There are some neat vintage weapons here . . . but still, the number of people who own guns disturbs me . . .

Not sure why it should.

I realize I don't post here enough too. So here's another of my collection:

Krag-Jorgenson M1896, made by the Springfield armoury. This is the infantry rifle, a very tough one to find due to how many were sporterized in the 40s/50s on the hunter market. It's one of my fave rifles, simply beautiful, great shooter, and very accurate, plus that awesome loading gate.

 

[volcol]

Hows the permitting on trying to get that thing in Britain? I know you CAN technically buy it, but you have to get licensing for it.

I think the major question on such a purchase is if you will be able to take it out for shooting or not. Not much point in spending that much money on a wall decoration y'know?

Replica firearms, blank firing firearms (so reenactors) and airsoft guns all require registration with UKARA, a reenactment group or theatrical society.

Real firearms require various grades of firearms licensing of course. Guns aren't impossible to get a hold of over here- as a lot of U.S folk think. For us it's just a very expensive hobby. I don't think general population can own live handguns nor automatic weapons though.

Deactivated firearms require the purchaser to be over 18 years of age, and are required to be sold with a deactivation certificate.

Sadly, Enfields (ww1 or ww2 - or later) are getting increasingly rare over here. The militaria shop I use nearby recieves between 200 and 250 a year (live) but of these, 99% fail the safety tests required ... thusly - they're deactivated. A live one - with the correct firearms certificate, is roughly 20% more expensive - but the additional costs of owning one far exceeds that.

It is a lot of money for a 'wall hanger' but for me the interest in owning one isn't the fact as to whether or not it fires ... it's owning that little piece of history

I'll have to post a pic of my savage arms No4 Mk1 Deac - the wood stock on it is an awesome colour.

 

[siben]

There are some neat vintage weapons here . . . but still, the number of people who own guns disturbs me . . .

Please explain yourself.