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These forums date back to the game's origins as the Crysis mod Traction Wars. Over the years the game and internet habits have evolved and discord.gg/vanguardww2 is now the principle home of the community.
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"Returning to WWII" (game discussion)
- Thread starter Roughbeak
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FlyingR
Member
Yes!! YESS!!!! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!! My taughts exactly!!!! Great video!!! Great find Roughbeak!
I was also thinking a scenario which included releasing Jews from concentration camps, just like in BoB, or save up POWs from the Japanese camps! People should know and understand the atrocities occurred during WWII.
Also I haven't seen much of Monte Cassino, that battle seems incredible and important! As well as the Battle of River Plate down in South America! Even as the Warsaw/French resistances! Even the Finnish war was quite incredible!
Although Forgotten Honor did cover many battles throughout the world with FH1 and FH2, they really did a good job about it.
They also need to cover WWI and Vietnam more!!
I was also thinking a scenario which included releasing Jews from concentration camps, just like in BoB, or save up POWs from the Japanese camps! People should know and understand the atrocities occurred during WWII.
Also I haven't seen much of Monte Cassino, that battle seems incredible and important! As well as the Battle of River Plate down in South America! Even as the Warsaw/French resistances! Even the Finnish war was quite incredible!
Although Forgotten Honor did cover many battles throughout the world with FH1 and FH2, they really did a good job about it.
They also need to cover WWI and Vietnam more!!
"Some different theaters..." Yep, calling it now, next iteration is Traction Wars: Resistance in Maniche's Homeland
But seriously, some good talking points! Though some of them would probably fit better for a Single-player game, it's quite true for a lot of their arguments
Good find!
But seriously, some good talking points! Though some of them would probably fit better for a Single-player game, it's quite true for a lot of their arguments
Good find!
volcol
Well-known member
Some interesting points they've drawn on here - however, most of them have been done in one way shape or form (just none of them in one single game).
One point though has gotten me a little riled up
.
I'm aware of a few games that have touched on the idea of including/ paying homage to concentration/work camps. They've done little to no research into what they're stating.
They're assuming developers don't want to make a game about a subject which might evoke difficult ethical and emotional experiences for a user. That developers are shy of a bit of 'controversy' and that developers are scared of the ugly side of things.
Lets take a look at a couple of games that have touched upon controversial subjects. CoDMW2 - the airport shooting scene, controversial - yes, a risk , yes - did it pay off (arguably so) They received a HUGE outpoor of flak from the media in regards to that level in the game ... the sort of flak that smaller companies would stand no chance of surviving. Then let's not forget the recent release of 'Hatred', which is effectively a mass shooting/killing spree simulator, that has received a world wide thrashing. There's also been several game modifications that have tried to create a school shooter simulation - all of which were promptly shut down.
Their argument for doing something controversial is ... well. do it for the sake of being controversial, and there's not much more to it other than that. The problem is, controversial in this day and age could be anything from a terrorist attack to shooting a lion (tragic, but in the grand scheme of things, quite trivial vs the hundreds dying in iraq/syria)
The power behind todays social media is something most developers do not want to risk the wrath of.
Yes people need to be aware of the holocaust, it happened, it was one of the worst things ever to grace human existence, but I don't think it is an absolute necessity for a new generation of ww2 video games to include it. Games, as a platform, are meant for entertainment. Gaming can be used to evoke powerful feelings and ethical choices, however, when broken down to the fundamental basics it's about entertaining an audience. I don't feel a video game is the best medium to inform/educate people of nazi war crimes - and I certainly don't think it would be a medium which could offer the true gravity of respect needed for the subject.
They're also seemingly unaware also of why Nazi paraphernalia is seldom seen in gaming ... that being because it's because it's illegal in some countries. (Yes some games do include the swastika etc - but that's for a different thread )
I enjoy EC's videos, but they can sometimes come up with an overly summarised and unexplored take on things.
My two cents (or pence )
(TLDR: some valid points in that video, but I don't think games are a viable setting for anything holocaust related)
One point though has gotten me a little riled up
.I'm aware of a few games that have touched on the idea of including/ paying homage to concentration/work camps. They've done little to no research into what they're stating.
They're assuming developers don't want to make a game about a subject which might evoke difficult ethical and emotional experiences for a user. That developers are shy of a bit of 'controversy' and that developers are scared of the ugly side of things.
Lets take a look at a couple of games that have touched upon controversial subjects. CoDMW2 - the airport shooting scene, controversial - yes, a risk , yes - did it pay off (arguably so) They received a HUGE outpoor of flak from the media in regards to that level in the game ... the sort of flak that smaller companies would stand no chance of surviving. Then let's not forget the recent release of 'Hatred', which is effectively a mass shooting/killing spree simulator, that has received a world wide thrashing. There's also been several game modifications that have tried to create a school shooter simulation - all of which were promptly shut down.
Their argument for doing something controversial is ... well. do it for the sake of being controversial, and there's not much more to it other than that. The problem is, controversial in this day and age could be anything from a terrorist attack to shooting a lion (tragic, but in the grand scheme of things, quite trivial vs the hundreds dying in iraq/syria)
The power behind todays social media is something most developers do not want to risk the wrath of.
Yes people need to be aware of the holocaust, it happened, it was one of the worst things ever to grace human existence, but I don't think it is an absolute necessity for a new generation of ww2 video games to include it. Games, as a platform, are meant for entertainment. Gaming can be used to evoke powerful feelings and ethical choices, however, when broken down to the fundamental basics it's about entertaining an audience. I don't feel a video game is the best medium to inform/educate people of nazi war crimes - and I certainly don't think it would be a medium which could offer the true gravity of respect needed for the subject.
They're also seemingly unaware also of why Nazi paraphernalia is seldom seen in gaming ... that being because it's because it's illegal in some countries. (Yes some games do include the swastika etc - but that's for a different thread )
I enjoy EC's videos, but they can sometimes come up with an overly summarised and unexplored take on things.
My two cents (or pence )
(TLDR: some valid points in that video, but I don't think games are a viable setting for anything holocaust related)
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FlyingR
Member
Volcol, honestly I do believe that games are also very informative, it may not be the main objective of the gaming company, but it can teach so much or open someone's mind that's incredible. Of course not all games do this but the ones that are "inspired" by historical event will obviously teach many things and motivate players about learning about said event.
For example for me it was Age of Empires, which besides having historical information (regardless if it was very accurate or not) did spark the interest about medieval ages/battles, and then BF1942 did the same with WWII. If I hadn't play those games, I wouldn't have cared or wouldn't have known what I know today about these topics. I am sure many people have been through the same. Then we carry on the message to other people (by talking about it, making games, writing songs, etc.) and it spreads out.
Sure, society can mess everything up especially now that everything webs out very fast, but if done right and by spreading a good message (if that can be done), then I'm sure it can succeed. The problem with this is that games have to find the right audience/target first, just like TW (sort of) did (and I really don't know how hahaha), before spreading to the world so they can get a positive back up. Marketing does indeed play a big role in the success of a game.
If everything is done right, the company/group can promote entertaining game play as well as it can give the player additional knowledge.
Plus, people won't give a damn if what they learn is not entertaining in general. Especially a lot of the younger generations who spend a lot of time using the bloody phones.
What happened in WWII was a very important event that changed today's world. People need to know about this, about the inventions, the brutalities (Holocaust, POWs camps, bombing civilians - Dresden, and the atomic bombs), and the way it affects us today.
For example for me it was Age of Empires, which besides having historical information (regardless if it was very accurate or not) did spark the interest about medieval ages/battles, and then BF1942 did the same with WWII. If I hadn't play those games, I wouldn't have cared or wouldn't have known what I know today about these topics. I am sure many people have been through the same. Then we carry on the message to other people (by talking about it, making games, writing songs, etc.) and it spreads out.
Sure, society can mess everything up especially now that everything webs out very fast, but if done right and by spreading a good message (if that can be done), then I'm sure it can succeed. The problem with this is that games have to find the right audience/target first, just like TW (sort of) did (and I really don't know how hahaha), before spreading to the world so they can get a positive back up. Marketing does indeed play a big role in the success of a game.
If everything is done right, the company/group can promote entertaining game play as well as it can give the player additional knowledge.
Plus, people won't give a damn if what they learn is not entertaining in general. Especially a lot of the younger generations who spend a lot of time using the bloody phones.
What happened in WWII was a very important event that changed today's world. People need to know about this, about the inventions, the brutalities (Holocaust, POWs camps, bombing civilians - Dresden, and the atomic bombs), and the way it affects us today.
volcol
Well-known member
Oh I understand the idea of games having a role in learning, I did that for my university thesis. I just don't think a game that is primarily a form of entertainment would give justice to quite how serious the topic of the holocaust might be. A virtual teaching tool, absolutely something that would be viable - an interactive classroom as it were... would go down well certainly with todays generation and their ease of access to technology. If the holocaust were to be approached, it should be more of an interactive experience - not a fun one. (So not really a 'game' as a game is entertainment)
I just don't think, as a mark of respect, that the holocaust should be tied in with a ww2 game (esp if said game is packed full of violence) I think there are better ways in which to reference and teach people about it.
I just don't think, as a mark of respect, that the holocaust should be tied in with a ww2 game (esp if said game is packed full of violence) I think there are better ways in which to reference and teach people about it.
FlyingR
Member
It's true that no game will show the true horrors of the Holocaust... but the same could be said about the actual war where millions of soldiers and civilians died through getting shot, bombs shredding them, grenades and mines exploding the bodies to pieces, getting burned to death like sausages with flamethrowers or napalm.. I mean, I don't think any WWII game respect that, it's all for fun after all.
I mean, if the game is done well, they can pull off showing parts or interacting with concentration camps, POW camps, even in Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Of course it wouldn't be fun, it would have to make it so that the players can feel it. Just like a movie would be done (which is also for entertainment). Of course those types of games should be Single player or that part of the game should.
As well, many people haven't done enough of the paradrops of D-Day, or even of the Fallschirmjager! Imagine the excitement of waiting for the damn light to turn green and just go for it... in HD!
I mean, if the game is done well, they can pull off showing parts or interacting with concentration camps, POW camps, even in Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Of course it wouldn't be fun, it would have to make it so that the players can feel it. Just like a movie would be done (which is also for entertainment). Of course those types of games should be Single player or that part of the game should.
As well, many people haven't done enough of the paradrops of D-Day, or even of the Fallschirmjager! Imagine the excitement of waiting for the damn light to turn green and just go for it... in HD!
mmiedzianyy
Member
This is exactly what i thought about next WWII games!
I don't mind storming the beaches or liberating france again in HD, but there are so much untouched topics that can fill up next WWII games for the closest decades!
Delicate topics like crimes against humanity can be shown in games, but for me this should only be mentioned.
Thats a good way to fire up curiosity, awake compassion. Some players will dig into details because of that.
I don't mind storming the beaches or liberating france again in HD, but there are so much untouched topics that can fill up next WWII games for the closest decades!
Delicate topics like crimes against humanity can be shown in games, but for me this should only be mentioned.
Thats a good way to fire up curiosity, awake compassion. Some players will dig into details because of that.
Aniallator
Member
Good to hear we're not the only ones dying for a new WW2 shooter!
Timberwolf
New Member
Having seen the video, I like Idea #2 the most. The one where a whole game campaign (singleplayer) is about a single area/island/whatever. The closest I've seen games get is with the attack/defend maps in multiplayer. (RO2, FH2)
Ever since I saw The Thin Red Line, I've been dying to play a WWII game that takes place on a single island and on a huge scale. Rising Storm has gotten the closest so far.
And he did butcher the word "Wolfenstein".
Ever since I saw The Thin Red Line, I've been dying to play a WWII game that takes place on a single island and on a huge scale. Rising Storm has gotten the closest so far.
And he did butcher the word "Wolfenstein".
Although I really like the idea of just a big island like Crysis I'm afraid it'll be boring in a WW2 genre. You can't just go and walk around the island in the middle of a battle and with that are you forced to stay in one place which defeats the purpose of a big open world.
I do however hope that one day Operation Market Garden will be featured in a game again.. *looks at Naga*
I do however hope that one day Operation Market Garden will be featured in a game again.. *looks at Naga*
mmiedzianyy
Member
That series is amazing. Unforgettable experience!
Killen
Member
Man, i was going to write that!!!! My god, i remember where first i bought road to Hill 30. I remember how scary for me was the us machinegun that has been shooted at hill30. I litteraly cried for Allen and Garnett death. Poor legget. Dafuq mate, i have a lot of things to say about this game! Awesome as the other BiA!
Esu21
Member
I dont know if theres any game like this, but there should be a WWII game based on the turn of the Russian Campaign for the German Army,something like Fallout but with squads and missions and not orders,where you have to survive not only the bullets,but the coldness,the hunger,the illnesses... and keep your squad alive,or something like that
Killen
Member
You can try modding arma 2 or 3 with ww2 mod! Iron Front Liberation is kinda good but it's not on a island if i am correct
Timberwolf
New Member
I must correct myself a little here. Planetside 2 is an example of a game that does (huge) persistent maps right.
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