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Map Ideas Thread

VonMudra

VonMudra

Well-known member
Unfortunately, this game is based on realism and actual battles. Since there were no actual battles through complex V-2 bunkers and such, we will not have such in the game. V-2 launch sites were not heavily permanent bunkers, but mobile platforms able to move into a position, shoot, then get the hell out before allied airpower could find them and plaster them into red paste. In fact, only one V-2 launch site was ever directly attacked by allied airplanes in the entire war, and it was by pure luck that it even happened.

Meillerwagen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Finally, as this game is currently focused on Normandy, and there were no V-2 launch sites in Normandy, the previous is superfluous.
 
S

siben

Member
Well, there where the big complexes in northern France that where big bunkers to shoot V1 and V2 rockets to England. They where bombed to dust though so never managed to be properly functional and where abandoned a few days before being captured. So no ground combat.
 
VonMudra

VonMudra

Well-known member
Yeah, they figured out pretty fast that the large bunker idea was a no go. Even then, it wasn't so much giant underground bunkers, and more just concrete permanent launching platforms with a few small bunkers for the missile crews to be safe from a V1/2 exploding on launch or such. And they were indeed smashed to dust by allied airpower within a few days of being discovered, with no ground combat happening on them.
 
VonMudra

VonMudra

Well-known member
Mmmmm, yes, those ones are quite big. Still, as you and I pointed out, they were bombed apart and never actually entered service.
 
Aniallator

Aniallator

Member
Operation Charnwood
Caen
A map set throughout northern Caen, focusing on urban house-to-house combat. IMO, every Second World War FPS needs at least one urban combat map, as maps in the Second World War genre tend to be more open. Caen would be the perfect setting . . . bomb craters, close quarters combat, rooftop snipers, rubble-covered streets; it'd have to be realistic, of course, but seeing how beautifully Merville turned out, I doubt you'll have a problem.

Operation Deadstick
Pegasus bridge
A Pegasus bridge map, composed of the bridge and the surrounding area. I don't need to elaborate on this one. I'd love to have a bridge map, with a few bunkers, machine gun nests, and pillboxes; with the surrounding area, you'd have châteaux, open fields, woods, that kind of thing.

Operation Neptune
Gold beach
No Normandy setting would be complete without a beach landing map. A beach landing map should be set on Gold beach, with the beach, the shorefront, and the coastal communities. The details are important, but challenging; for example, you'd need to include the Allied fleet a few miles offshore, the sounds of the bombardment, stuff like that. Challenging, but very possible. If you have fears about the aspect of a full-on beach landing map, take a look at the beach landing maps in Forgotten Hope 2, they've done a great job with them.

If possible, maps should have a mode where the Germans are on defense and the British are on offense, and where the British are on defense and the Germans are on offense. Such could be the case with a Pegasus bridge map, for example, where in one mode, the Germans hold the bridge while the British must capture it, and in another, the British hold the bridge while the Germans must recapture it. Such could be true for some maps, but not others, such as Gold beach.

Just my two cents. I'd rather the game be released sooner, though, so maybe the second chapter will be the one to bring more maps? If you can't make a map accurate like you did with Merville, I wouldn't make it.
 
MausRatte

MausRatte

Member
Beaches of Normandy


Not my image, I found it. Don't know if this is how it will all work, but the map could be set up like this.
 
Alex

Alex

Member
You got that from the Heroes and Generals forum. :|

If you want a game like H&G, just play that game.
And please read up about Traction Wars before you start making some suggestions to the game.
 
VonMudra

VonMudra

Well-known member
We would love to do Normandy landing maps, but the main issue for us right now is the sheer vastness of specific static models (bunkers, defenses, etc etc), plus unique vehicles (landing craft, landing tanks, etc etc) that would be needed. It is an eventually want, but do not expect to see it in the first or even second release. When it is done, it will be done accurately to the actual German beach defenses in the sector chosen. No Saving Private Ryan gigantic cliff bunkers facing right at the ocean. Expect tiny little MG pillboxes that angle down the length of the beach and actively cannot directly towards the water, and Tobruk bunkers which are essentially just a MG on a rotating ring mount, with no protection for the exposed gunner. IE, these:

http://aphs.worldnomads.com/matt_tani/28788/SAM_2800.jpg

http://www.ssqq.com/travel/images/oslo2010dday173.jpg

Not these:

http://gonzohistory.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/bunker2.jpg

The ones in SPR were based off of german artillery observation bunkers. They were not armed with machineguns, only giant range finders for sighting in artillery on naval vessels. The actual MG nests were small, well concealed (hard to understand that now-a-days, as soil erosion has laid bare most of the German bunkers that you can visit, and in some cases completely uncovered them and even caused them to fall over), and were designed either to be the easy to make and occupy Tobruk bunkers, or the harder to make but better protected pillboxes, which had sea-ward facing walls to protect them from allied naval artillery and enemy forces from shooting right into the firing port. One of the big reasons for the slaughters at Omaha and Juno was because not even the shingle was safe, as these machine guns and artillery pieces were sighting to actually shoot down the shingle's length, with only a very small blindspot to cover from the bullets (and of course, that wouldn't protect one against the artillery shells.)
 
MausRatte

MausRatte

Member
Spoiler:
VonMudra said:
We would love to do Normandy landing maps, but the main issue for us right now is the sheer vastness of specific static models (bunkers, defenses, etc etc), plus unique vehicles (landing craft, landing tanks, etc etc) that would be needed. It is an eventually want, but do not expect to see it in the first or even second release. When it is done, it will be done accurately to the actual German beach defenses in the sector chosen. No Saving Private Ryan gigantic cliff bunkers facing right at the ocean. Expect tiny little MG pillboxes that angle down the length of the beach and actively cannot directly towards the water, and Tobruk bunkers which are essentially just a MG on a rotating ring mount, with no protection for the exposed gunner. IE, these:

http://aphs.worldnomads.com/matt_tani/28788/SAM_2800.jpg

http://www.ssqq.com/travel/images/oslo2010dday173.jpg

Not these:

http://gonzohistory.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/bunker2.jpg

The ones in SPR were based off of german artillery observation bunkers. They were not armed with machineguns, only giant range finders for sighting in artillery on naval vessels. The actual MG nests were small, well concealed (hard to understand that now-a-days, as soil erosion has laid bare most of the German bunkers that you can visit, and in some cases completely uncovered them and even caused them to fall over), and were designed either to be the easy to make and occupy Tobruk bunkers, or the harder to make but better protected pillboxes, which had sea-ward facing walls to protect them from allied naval artillery and enemy forces from shooting right into the firing port. One of the big reasons for the slaughters at Omaha and Juno was because not even the shingle was safe, as these machine guns and artillery pieces were sighting to actually shoot down the shingle's length, with only a very small blindspot to cover from the bullets (and of course, that wouldn't protect one against the artillery shells.)
Click to expand...

One problem I see with having a map on Normandy beach is what is stopping the Germans from rushing down to the beach and just shooting the soldiers that spawn instantly? Or hiding beside a landing craft and just spraying anyone down that runs out? There are a lot of kinks that will need to be worked out, I feel a direct copy of the Normandy beach, as much as it is preferred, would not be a possibility.
 
VonMudra

VonMudra

Well-known member
The simple answer would be to set it up so that any Germans who try to get onto the beach proper are auto-killed by the map, a simple out of bounds system. Forgotten Hope 2 has done a beach landing map with Omaha, and done it superbly, with the same attention to detail on the German defenses. And it plays quite nicely.
 
Aniallator

Aniallator

Member
VonMudra said:
We would love to do Normandy landing maps, but the main issue for us right now is the sheer vastness of specific static models (bunkers, defenses, etc etc), plus unique vehicles (landing craft, landing tanks, etc etc) that would be needed. It is an eventually want, but do not expect to see it in the first or even second release. When it is done, it will be done accurately to the actual German beach defenses in the sector chosen. No Saving Private Ryan gigantic cliff bunkers facing right at the ocean. Expect tiny little MG pillboxes that angle down the length of the beach and actively cannot directly towards the water, and Tobruk bunkers which are essentially just a MG on a rotating ring mount, with no protection for the exposed gunner. IE, these:

http://aphs.worldnomads.com/matt_tani/28788/SAM_2800.jpg

http://www.ssqq.com/travel/images/oslo2010dday173.jpg

Not these:

http://gonzohistory.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/bunker2.jpg

The ones in SPR were based off of german artillery observation bunkers. They were not armed with machineguns, only giant range finders for sighting in artillery on naval vessels. The actual MG nests were small, well concealed (hard to understand that now-a-days, as soil erosion has laid bare most of the German bunkers that you can visit, and in some cases completely uncovered them and even caused them to fall over), and were designed either to be the easy to make and occupy Tobruk bunkers, or the harder to make but better protected pillboxes, which had sea-ward facing walls to protect them from allied naval artillery and enemy forces from shooting right into the firing port. One of the big reasons for the slaughters at Omaha and Juno was because not even the shingle was safe, as these machine guns and artillery pieces were sighting to actually shoot down the shingle's length, with only a very small blindspot to cover from the bullets (and of course, that wouldn't protect one against the artillery shells.)
Click to expand...

The number of static models would be high indeed, and seeing as a beach landing map in TW shoud take place on Gold or Sword, it'd also mean including the shorefront towns, such as Lion-sur-Mer and Ouistreham, depending on the sector. I'm glad to hear you'll be so dedicated to getting all the details right, you guys never cease to amaze ;) Forgotten Hope 2 also has a beautiful Gold beach map, something you could take a look at. A beach landing map would also mean a new tank, either a DD or a Sherman V, as Cromwells weren't used in the landings. Choosing DD means they should spawn in the water, a hundred feet or so from the beach; choosing Sherman V means implementing an LCT Mk. IV as a tank spawn, beached and static, much like the LCVPs the infantry would spawn into. Of course, choosing DD means some adventurous souls may choose to take a pleasure tour of the Normandy coast . . . so perhaps, in a DD, motoring to far from the beach should result in the DD sinking, something they were prone to do? And if an adventurous German were to get onto the beach, rather than being automatically killed, perhaps he's blown apart by a shell from the Allied fleet? Just to spice things up, dropping dead without cause is unrealistic :laugh: There are a lot of factors to consider, but done well, this map will be mindblowing. I agree in that it should wait a chapter or two, something like this would be a lot of work . . . and I'd like to see the game as soon as possible!
 
Infidel

Infidel

New Member
I would like to see bigger maps(knowing cryengine 3 with devs touch they can look amazing) .....for example 5sqkm or bigger(bigger the better) for tanks combat otherwise tiger gun or flak 88 for example will not be used to their fullest potential as in most games....maps around 1sqkm are too small & we have it on few games & it sucks in tank combat(plus tanks in those games are toys not tanks)....but those are arcade games while here is realism so maps has to be bigger plus it would be nice to shoot tanks if line of sight is clear at max ranges depending on the tank/gun & not limited so your round after for example 1 km suddenly turn up,down,left,right side as seen in some games.....plus bigger maps gives you more places to hide & if camo is in game thats going to be perfect....& i hope tanks will have armor values instead of hp where angling your tank actually works
 
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Aniallator

Aniallator

Member
Of course, all maps should be large and as realistic as possible. Here are two other maps you should look into; a bocage map with the classic Normandy setting. Fields, hedgerows, châteaux, a small village or two, that kind of thing. Another good map would be one centered on armored/vehicular warfare. Large, open, with less in the way of hedgerows.
 
friendlyfire

friendlyfire

Member
I agree, big maps are realistic but if the game become an bloody ARMA/IronFront clown - i dont want to play it. The ultra realistic genre is completelly covered by ARMA/IF and this are simulations not games.
A Lot of players dont like games in which they have to search 5 minutes for an enemy or where they can fly in realtime over the mediterranean sea to destroy an object. Because of that they play still the old ww2 FPS.
If the big maps are dedicated for tanks and planes than this is also okay under premises:
- enough vehicles for all possible players
- game must be able to handle 128player+.
I suggest to create big, combined and smaller maps to cover all interests. Then the servers can decide what they want to offer to their players.
 
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Miller786

Miller786

Member
well i'd love some large maps, i ve always been looking for an arma-ro hybrid, however i do agree that large maps can be boring at times...
but hell, crossing the channel in your he111 to bomb english factories in ww2ol was a ton of fun!
 
Aniallator

Aniallator

Member
Just out of curiosity, devs, but what's the progress on the Lebisey map? I saw there was a post about it a few years back, with some nice screenshots. Surely it's in a more or less finished state? Will you showcase it like you showcased Merville in the near future?
 
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