What changed from TW to Vanguard?

[Flare]

So, here we are. Traction Wars Vanguard Normandy 1944. It's one heck of a shift for both the devs and the community. First of all I gotta say congrats to the devs for the progress you've made and the fact that you're on the right track towards a release. Now I would like to ask a little more about Vanguard and how much of the gameplay design aspects from Traction Wars is continuing along in Vanguard?

Let's start with what we do know.

Stuff that is carrying through:
Pegasus Bridge and Merville Battery maps.
All weapon models, character models, and other art assets.
Night and rain battles.
Sound and visual effects.

Things that have changed:
Player count reducing.
Game mode changed from Conquest to "Raid", an attack and defend mode. How does "Raid" work?
Maps made smaller and tighter.

Now what I'd like to know is if the general style of gameplay has changed.
Is the pace of the game going to be faster than it was before? I, and many other community members, enjoy a slow paced game and hopefully Vanguard can match it's realistic locations and equipment with a pace of gameplay that is realistically slow as well.

Are rally points still implemented? Combined with a (hopefully long, at least 30-45s) respawn timer they can be important tactical tools for a squad to use. In Traction Wars it was mentioned that rallies could also be used to fall back and resupply. Will this still function in that way?

Is the squad size and complement still realistic? (9 or 10 guys, only 1 or 2 SMG and 1 MG.)

The maps have been made smaller, but how small are they now? In the trailer it looked like there are still some quite long distances and areas that are fairly large and open which is a good thing IMO.

And are there any other changes that make Vanguard considerably different from Traction Wars?

Thanks for the updates guys, I'm just trying to get some more information so I know what sort of game this will really be. If I had to assume I would say it's the first of it's kind, an extremely realistic (in content and hopefully also gameplay pace) but small scale WWII fps.

Flare

 

[General Naga]

Good question(s)!

We haven’t carried through all the assets from Traction Wars to Vanguard. Some were very old and technology and our techniques have improved to the point where we’ve been able to replace them fairly easily so everything is up to date and consistent.

Pace is somewhat of a subjective description, fast/slow mean different things to different people. We never liked the long gaps between action in TW, especially while travelling and other games such as Squad, PR & ARMA already very good examples of that type of experience. They are much closer to being military simulators than Vanguard as a result.

Vanguard is smaller scale but a more intense experience than Traction Wars with the gaps between the action being quite short. It’s a focused infantry combat experience with cavalier players ending up dead extremely quickly and teamwork being important to success.

Our maps are the same size but we are using them in a different way for Raid, we’ll be releasing more details about the gameplay over time.

 

[th_battleaxe]

Please tell me the Lebel rifle made the cut...

Other than that, interesting philosophy you worked out. Let's hope Beefeater players fare better.

 

[Flare]

Pace is somewhat of a subjective description, fast/slow mean different things to different people. We never liked the long gaps between action in TW, especially while travelling and other games such as Squad, PR & ARMA already very good examples of that type of experience. They are much closer to being military simulators than Vanguard as a result.

Vanguard is smaller scale but a more intense experience than Traction Wars with the gaps between the action being quite short. It’s a focused infantry combat experience with cavalier players ending up dead extremely quickly and teamwork being important to success.

Ok, thanks for the answer. However telling us there is less time between the action does not really give any information on the speed of the firefights themselves. Could I assume that the actual combat is about the same speed as the games like Squad and PR (with things like realistically long reload times and weapon handling, insane suppression, etc) or is the actual combat quick like games like Insurgency or RO2 or even Battlefield/COD?

Your point about teamwork being important is encouraging. Am I correct in assuming that there is some sort of squad or local voip system that is important to use to succeed? I fear that without proper comms systems the game will just play like Insurgency or RO2 and be much less tactical and interesting to play.

Our maps are the same size but we are using them in a different way for Raid, we’ll be releasing more details about the gameplay over time.

Ok glad to hear that the maps are still the same size, and looking forward to seeing what the game mode is like!

Thanks for answering my questions

Flare

 

[Guillaume]

Ok, thanks for the answer. However telling us there is less time between the action does not really give any information on the speed of the firefights themselves. Could I assume that the actual combat is about the same speed as the games like Squad and PR (with things like realistically long reload times and weapon handling, insane suppression, etc) or is the actual combat quick like games like Insurgency or RO2 or even Battlefield/COD?

We haven't changed the pace of gameplay. We still have suppression, shock, relatively slow player movement, realistic weapon reloading time,
believable ballistics and all that. Our internal playtests showed that the new game mode and map setup actually force us to play more slowly than it was before, but as @General Naga explained, we also get into a fight more quickly.

Are rally points still implemented? Combined with a (hopefully long, at least 30-45s) respawn timer

There is no concept of respawn timer on the Raid gamemode, we will annonce all the details over time.

 

[Leopardi]

There is no concept of respawn timer on the Raid gamemode, we will annonce all the details over time.

If this means it will have one life game mode, it sounds really promising. Will fill the void left behind by America's Army, and guarantee it stands out from post scriptums.

Plus the insane thrill one life game modes offer is not even comparable to any respawn shooters. There's never been such a WW2 game before!

 

[FlyingR]

Ok if you're doing 1 Life then this changes everything...

 

[th_battleaxe]

Wow, that would be quite the change from most traditional games. This is going to be very interesting to hear more about.

Probably will also mean I'll be spending a whole lot of time with my face in the dirt

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

If this means it will have one life game mode, it sounds really promising. Will fill the void left behind by America's Army, and guarantee it stands out from post scriptums.

Plus the insane thrill one life game modes offer is not even comparable to any respawn shooters. There's never been such a WW2 game before!

My thoughts goes to the firefight game mode in current Insurgency (and countdown game mode in Red Orchestra 2), where your team respawns when you capture an objective. Or reinforcements based on squad leader calls.

 

[Zainab]

Hearing about “ one life one chance”, feels like realistic and thrilling but there can drawbacks too, like we don’t know how much longer one battle will consume time and players might get fed up of waiting one team to finish the game unless they are converted to other servers...? So yeah need clear up here (?) ..

 

[Leopardi]

Hearing about “ one life one chance”, feels like realistic and thrilling but there can drawbacks too, like we don’t know how much longer one battle will consume time and players might get fed up of waiting one team to finish the game unless they are converted to other servers...? So yeah need clear up here (?) ..

It's not a problem with correctly set round times. America's Army servers usually had 4-7 minutes round time, some "fast round servers" were set to 2-3 minutes.

 

[Zainab]

It's not a problem with correctly set round times. America's Army servers usually had 4-7 minutes round time, some "fast round servers" were set to 2-3 minutes.

Well, wouldn’t that be too fast as to be realistic I would battles to go on for longer than 15 mins which makes it more excited.

 

[SneakyPara]

It might be better to compare Vanguard to Post Scriptum rather than Arma. PS makes the sand box work and that is not a good comparison for Vanguard.
Squad based raids? That's Normandy, is it? Well, that means a pile of history books that need re-reading. Maybe you could promote Vanguard as WWII Team Death Match with Normandy scenery? Haven't seen the Capture The Flag mode yet.
And Pathfinder Games needs finance to carry on. We never expected anything else and probably most players understand. Kickstarter is fine, get the kickstarter link on the home page pronto so we can see your plans. But you mentioned evil Steam and then everything became dark.
Also, squad mates as two words would be the English version.

 

[DerJoachim]

Do we know yet how the friendly fire/identification mechanic will be? i guess you guys going hard way without immersion breaking names on top of the squad mates?

 

[PanzerGrenadier]

The smaller map scale is definitely appreciated by me. After playing two dozen or so hours of Post Scriptum the need to spend 15 minutes every life just running to the area of operation makes the game a chore to play after more than an hour.

 

[Leopardi]

Well, wouldn’t that be too fast as to be realistic I would battles to go on for longer than 15 mins which makes it more excited.

Then you should be looking at playing Post Scriptum?

If this game aims for small scale infantry engagements, those aren't too fast. You have to take into account that people will die in the beginning, and then you're watching people crawling along hallways.

Rainbow Six: Siege is using those "fast rounds" times at 3 minutes, so a full 6 or 7 minutes from America's Army is more than generous and enough.

 

[Viktorianas]

As a huge fan of Day of Infamy, i still feel that THE PERFECT formula is something in between RO2 and DOI, i mean in hundreds of hours i do understand what makes FPS enjoyable for me: none or only few vehicles, no more than 32 players, short periods between action, but with realistic gun mechanics, RO2 is a bit too large with 64 players, i dont feel intimacy and feel irrelevant to team success as an individual, (plays much better with 48 p. though), DOI is too fast at times and too cramped in some maps, but i feel very important to team success and sometimes even capture points alone, just a tiny bit slower pace and a little bit spacious maps would be pretty much a sweetspot.

 

[Miller786]

It might be better to compare Vanguard to Post Scriptum rather than Arma. PS makes the sand box work and that is not a good comparison for Vanguard.
Squad based raids? That's Normandy, is it? Well, that means a pile of history books that need re-reading. Maybe you could promote Vanguard as WWII Team Death Match with Normandy scenery? Haven't seen the Capture The Flag mode yet.
And Pathfinder Games needs finance to carry on. We never expected anything else and probably most players understand. Kickstarter is fine, get the kickstarter link on the home page pronto so we can see your plans. But you mentioned evil Steam and then everything became dark.
Also, squad mates as two words would be the English version.

Ever heard of the capture of pegasus bridge or the assault on the merville battery mr. historybooks?

 

[Flare]

Just reading these posts makes me slightly disappointed. I wish the community was coming from games like PR, Squad, etc, rather than RO2, DOI, etc. We need people who will use mics all the time, listen to squad leaders, play as an actual team. RO2 and DOI are basically Battlefield and CoD with one-shot kills and no crosshairs. I think Vangaurd has the potential to be so much more than that but I think the community has to really commit to playing as a team.

 

[DerJoachim]

Just reading these posts makes me slightly disappointed. I wish the community was coming from games like PR, Squad, etc, rather than RO2, DOI, etc.

Eh, you have to deal with it man, it is sad but it is what it is, generations change, playerbase change, before it was WW2online, PR, first release of America's Army...now most of them players died of old age BUT NOT ME , i started very young , no but seriously why you assuming this? for example i played ww2online for 8 years, and destroyed myself with PRWW2, and Heroes & Generals when it was in alpha (wich was a really good yet raw game, then they went mainstream and pay2win way and fucked it up).

You dont need to be disapponted if thats the case, as i said, most of the "old guard" of glorious WW2 gamers have probably daughters and sons spending money in this kickstarter...