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Dev Blog #33: Player Identification
- Thread starter General Naga
- Start date
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Lol, either I was extremly unclear on my point or you completly missunderstood.
First of all I backed Squad when it was on KS and I've played it plenty, so "höhö"
.Secondly I've had my fair share of PR, played RO since it's mod days, and regularly enjoy
simulators and series such as IL2, RoF, DCS and more, hence I'm not "new" to this as you
want to make it sound
. Darkest Hour is another favorite.To the actual point about "Identifying friendlies". Last time I checked, Squad had plenty
of visual ques for this as well such as showing nametags while aiming at friendly soldiers,
or viewing them on the minimap. Point being, some basic information needs to be given/transformed to the player
that would be quite easily obtained or obvious in real life, some information also needs to be present in the
3d world. In reality you'd most likely have an idea of where your friendlies are, especially before a firefight,
you'd also have a whole other sense of peripheral vision compared to your computers FoV. Sure any given situation
can become chaotic but drawing a sensible line is just game development. You shouldn't have to rely ONLY on comms
to find out if friendlies are at one point or another in my opinon. Instead design around a framework that makes a
decent combination of what is realistic and what works gameplay wise, and something that doesn't totally annihilate new or novice players.
As for referencing a game like PR as an example, PR is very bad at having a clean and understandable GUI for newcomers. It also had a very poor introduction
to newcomers and so I can't for the world understand why that should go as an example of "how you do it". It's a very realistic game and does that well but it
does some other parts very poorly in terms of game design.
3D sound I miss referenced, I meant bypassing it mainly for enemeis. For that purpose its just a gimmick unless you play organized saying
that both sides should always use in-game VOIP and hence if you talk and someone is close that "Might" give your position away giving
some extra immersion. But it's more or less just roleplay that requires organizing, my bad for miss interpreting there and answering
something flyer didn't say.
Just watched Dunkirk btw, great movie!
-Written from phone so probably "unrealistic spelling"
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FlyingR
Member
[MENTION=4718]heady89[/MENTION]
Totally agree with most parts. I was hoping that besides VOIP, friendlies (or at least have like a 30-50m radius that would show friendlies) would appear on the map or that if you aim at a friendly or foe for 3-5 seconds their name would appear. I think those are completely suitable (if not a "must"), in comparison to having some kind of icon above the player's heads.
The problem with PR is that first it was a mod for BF2 so when people think this, they think it will be like BF2 gameplay. With being a standalone from BF2, the game is very limited due to the BF2 engine, the Devs have basically abused the game to its limits. Another big problem is that players don't read the ****ing manual or don't play in Co-op first to practice since the gameplay is quite complex at first. They jump right in the game expecting to be easy and fun, and then they get rekt and complain that the game is too hard. I referenced PR because of the gameplay teamwork and communications, which is clearly one of the best game in those fields.
Totally agree with most parts. I was hoping that besides VOIP, friendlies (or at least have like a 30-50m radius that would show friendlies) would appear on the map or that if you aim at a friendly or foe for 3-5 seconds their name would appear. I think those are completely suitable (if not a "must"), in comparison to having some kind of icon above the player's heads.
The problem with PR is that first it was a mod for BF2 so when people think this, they think it will be like BF2 gameplay. With being a standalone from BF2, the game is very limited due to the BF2 engine, the Devs have basically abused the game to its limits. Another big problem is that players don't read the ****ing manual or don't play in Co-op first to practice since the gameplay is quite complex at first. They jump right in the game expecting to be easy and fun, and then they get rekt and complain that the game is too hard. I referenced PR because of the gameplay teamwork and communications, which is clearly one of the best game in those fields.
Looked up Squad gameplay and I see where you guys are coming from with the communication via open mic and everything, but I have always found that type of communication to be annoying since I personally think it ruins immersion (would rather have voice acted commands) and there is always that one immature guy that tries to troll and, as an old school senile SOB, I just don't got time for that xD.
Usually it is half and half when it comes to mic usage, some, like me, like typing in a chat and will turn it off if it is there and others who use it will use TeamSpeak if it is not there so either or is fine with me, but i'd rather the devs not put it on a focus point. Plus team killing annoys me just as much as the person I TK so I think the HUD is reasonable for playability.
As for the weapon pick up being removed, I still think it should stay in because there are multiple accounts when this type of unethical WWII situations happen and most are even to a higher degree. Such as; Germans tying up POWs to tanks so the enemy won't shoot at the tank, inf using AA guns on other inf, guys using German lugers to put down dying horses, and my Dad's old friend's grandfather was a 101st paratrooper who said when he went into towns where Germans surrendered they didn't have time or resources to take POWs so they'd make em wrestle in their underwear and whoever wins they let go, in their underwear though (still not sure if he was just BSing or telling the truth, but it sounded like the guy was crazy enough to do it). Now I don't think we wanna have the option to tie enemy soldiers to tanks in this game, but I think the gun pick up option would demonstrate just enough that the war wasn't as straightforward and ethical as we'd think.
I was also thinking if the weapon pickup is implemented it should go something like press "E" to switch weapons(que animation) then after you pick it up hold "E" to pick up ammo and then have an animation of the guy taking a magazine and putting it in his pouch. The more ammo you want or need the longer you have to hold E and go through the animation, that way people will be discouraged to pick up enemy weapons since they'd have to spend extra time getting enough of the enemies rounds instead of say just a few mags had it been a friendly soldier's body behind the frontlines where it is safer and quicker. As long as it wouldn't be like where you walk over someone and magically pick up the gun and all of its ammo (like the old WWII Call of Duty and Medal of Honor games) and instead properly display the time interval I am happy with it.
Usually it is half and half when it comes to mic usage, some, like me, like typing in a chat and will turn it off if it is there and others who use it will use TeamSpeak if it is not there so either or is fine with me, but i'd rather the devs not put it on a focus point. Plus team killing annoys me just as much as the person I TK so I think the HUD is reasonable for playability.
As for the weapon pick up being removed, I still think it should stay in because there are multiple accounts when this type of unethical WWII situations happen and most are even to a higher degree. Such as; Germans tying up POWs to tanks so the enemy won't shoot at the tank, inf using AA guns on other inf, guys using German lugers to put down dying horses, and my Dad's old friend's grandfather was a 101st paratrooper who said when he went into towns where Germans surrendered they didn't have time or resources to take POWs so they'd make em wrestle in their underwear and whoever wins they let go, in their underwear though (still not sure if he was just BSing or telling the truth, but it sounded like the guy was crazy enough to do it). Now I don't think we wanna have the option to tie enemy soldiers to tanks in this game, but I think the gun pick up option would demonstrate just enough that the war wasn't as straightforward and ethical as we'd think.
I was also thinking if the weapon pickup is implemented it should go something like press "E" to switch weapons(que animation) then after you pick it up hold "E" to pick up ammo and then have an animation of the guy taking a magazine and putting it in his pouch. The more ammo you want or need the longer you have to hold E and go through the animation, that way people will be discouraged to pick up enemy weapons since they'd have to spend extra time getting enough of the enemies rounds instead of say just a few mags had it been a friendly soldier's body behind the frontlines where it is safer and quicker. As long as it wouldn't be like where you walk over someone and magically pick up the gun and all of its ammo (like the old WWII Call of Duty and Medal of Honor games) and instead properly display the time interval I am happy with it.
agus92
Member
Hello,
You certainly bring interesting points to the table. By enforcing or promoting mic communication, players are certainly more exposed to other trollish/childlish players. The only weapons against that are squad kicking (if he is annoying the squad voice chat), admining (kicking from server if the trolling is out of hand) and community pressure. Certainly, in games like PR or squad, you will have to endure comms trolls (or just unpleasant comms) at some time. That is certainly un-immersive. On the other hand though, I find that an acceptable sacrifice if in most of the games I play I am allowed to effectively coordinate with my squad mates (and random local using local chat as well), and thus acting as a cohesive unit. The most un-inmersive factor in every FPS game for me is the lack of teamwork. And voice commands are just lacking for that. On the same cited games, I have had to rely on voice commands and text at times, and I was vastly more inefficient and just plain ineffective communicating compared to my teammates, even with those less experienced and serious than me. And a last thought: on small communities like PR (dunno about Squad), people tend to recognize each other after a while (since communicating creates a small bond), and people who don't want to goof around tend to join the squads of recognizable good squad leads. Which decreases chances to deal with trolls.
Regarding weapon kit and ethics: I would LOVE if something about morals, ethics and culture could come into play. But I don't see how picking an enemy weapon has anything to do with ethics. Unless it's about suicide ethics, because your NCO would kill you when he realized you'd ditched your weapon xD
(you proposal of implementation sounds good to me, and in line with other comments above: indeed, that would probably be the best way to do it if implemented)
PS: sorry for citing PR and Squad all the time, but it's the best way I'm able to envision to convey my points.
ahalol
New Member
In my point of view, having the green bubble indicator always on is not a good idea. Imagine a situation that you are in combat in serried buildings, it would be much of an disappointment to know which builidng is full of friendlies and enemies before actually going in. Having the indicator only visible when aiming may be better. However, I think teamkilling is not much an issue after players get used to the game. Afterall, a player should be able to distinguish the uniforms, and if not, make his/her decision to fire or not.
I agree with the building thing in a sense of seeing all your teammates in the building because the indicator HUD is visible instead of just walking through the building and see your team has cleared it. I think making the indicator only visible when seeing a teammate in person instead of through walls would overall solve the issue and bring in a good balance of realism and playability. You're right with teamkilling not being too much of an issue for older players, but the problem is there will always be new players in every form so it will kinda be unavoidable (que RO2 teamkilling flashback ptsd) and with night matches it will probably be even harder to distinguish friendlies. However, I can see your case of it possibly ruining a sense of deep realism.
DerJoachim
Member
What about Armbands? they always been used in all wars..looks like a solution, because that hud on top of the head is horrible.
Alex
Member
Yeah I'd rather not have armbands. Takes the immersion out way more than a HUD symbol does. At least then you know that it's just a HUD, not actually the models, textures, sounds, etc. If it's actually in the world it means that the actual material of the game is inaccurate. Plus arm-bands you'd not always be able to see. Big no to arm-bands as player recognition from me.
DerJoachim
Member
Wut are you even serious? why armbands would take the immersion away exactly? and also why an ugly HUD on top of the heads wouldnt....for me it make the game look like a sci-fi pew pew, to each his own i guess.
DerJoachim
Member
Do you know any other case of floating green rectangle on top of the head?
Alex
Member
Sounds like a case of "I'm too casual for hardcore realism so let's screw up the authenticity of the game."
DerJoachim
Member
If you are referring to me with this random response, i mostly play Project Reality and Escape From Tarkov, no floating gibberish on head.
PR does have "floating gibberish", look at a player on your team and you see a green or blue name-tag.
The armband vs indicator is not a question about casuality.
It's immersion vs. authenticity. Indicators take away immersion as you see stuff that's not "in the world" on your screen. However the game is still authentic because what is "in the world" is fully authentic. Arm bands take away authenticity as they are in the world and were not actually used. From my point of view that would also take away immersion as if I want to feel immersed in an authentic WWII environment it has to actually be authentic.
I don't want to offend you but arm bands as player ID is just a silly suggestion.
If the indicators are unobtrusive and only show up if you have line of sight on the teammate I see no problem at all having them.
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