Reloading animations

[Aniallator]

Reloading animations are one of the things that concerns me most in TW, so I thought I'd bring it up.

1. I have no doubt that reloading animations will be of high quality, but I'm concerned that as in many other realism games (RO2, for example), they're still too "fast"; specifically, the time it takes for the character to drop or put away a used magazine, and take out a new one. Below is an example of how I imagine a good speed in reloading animations.

2. Reloading LMGs. Depending on the weapon, I think you should have to be prone to reload LMGs; this means the MG34 and MG42, of course, but not the Bren. While the Bren is only a few pounds lighter, its feed system (a top-fed magazine as opposed to a side-fed belt) makes reloading while holding it up a lot easier. If this were implemented, I hope beyond hope to see - finally in an FPS - proper reloading animations for belt-fed LMGs that have to be reloaded while prone, where the character actually rests the weapon and uses both hands to load the new belt. This applies to static belt-fed weapons like the Vickers too, naturally.

 

[patton1199]

+1

Longer/realistic reload times make gun play a lot better in my opinion.... People are usually a lot less wasteful with their ammunition

 

[Simon]

[MENTION=1968]patton1199[/MENTION] and a lot more exciting to play, imagine gunfire over your head and you are reloading slow.

 

[Subass39]

Longer reloads make the game feel more realistic, guess its a +1

"Every shot counts"

 

[shumpu123]

Hey subass

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Agreed, +1 this is great. I haven't seen a video game (even RO2) in which the reload isn't too fast. The great thing is that your example's reload time is actually very reasonable

 

[mmiedzianyy]

For me slow reloading is very annoying.. I expect something very reasonable. [MENTION=2177]Simon[/MENTION], during gunfight i will do everything to shorten the reloading and that is not bothering about empty magazines.
I think life of a person is much more valuable than putting empty magazine into a carrier bag.
I understund that implementing this is very hard but extending reloading time just to give more "realism" is unnecesarry.
Im sure that well trained soldier can operate his gun very fast.

 

[FlyingR]

For me slow reloading is very annoying.. I expect something very reasonable. @Simon, during gunfight i will do everything to shorten the reloading and that is not bothering about empty magazines.
I think life of a person is much more valuable than putting empty magazine into a carrier bag.
I understund that implementing this is very hard but extending reloading time just to give more "realism" is unnecesarry.
Im sure that well trained soldier can operate his gun very fast.

This!

 

[Aniallator]

For me slow reloading is very annoying.. I expect something very reasonable. @Simon, during gunfight i will do everything to shorten the reloading and that is not bothering about empty magazines.
I think life of a person is much more valuable than putting empty magazine into a carrier bag.
I understund that implementing this is very hard but extending reloading time just to give more "realism" is unnecesarry.
Im sure that well trained soldier can operate his gun very fast.

I'm not saying used magazines should be returned to their pouch when reloading. Remember that in TW used magazines, empty or not, are dropped when you reload, so were TW to use the same speed in reloading animations as seen in the example GIF, they'd still be faster because the character isn't returning the used magazine to its pouch; just look at the example GIF, and imagine the character dropping the used AK-74 magazine the moment he removes it from the weapon. See? Slow, but not too slow, and very realistic. Look up some helmet cam combat footage though, IRL reloading is generally a lot slower, not the other way around.

 

[drummer93]

there are a lot of videos of professionals firing WWII guns in Youtube. Forgotten Weapons and InRangeTV have Ian and Karl doing competitions, and TFB TV the "Run and Gun" tests. What I mean is, this people shooted a lot of guns under pressure, the devs can check their reload time and try to reproduce it in the game (I'm not saying something awesome, I know that the devs are doing something similar ). You can see that is not a long and annoying time. Something that I don't like about PR and Squad is the reload time, is f*cking long, it seems you are in a picnic , not in combat xD

 

[Aniallator]

LOL, you guys seem to have a rather misconstrued idea of how long reloading can take in a combat situation Shooting competition/demonstration videos are not a good reference, because not only are those guys not in combat, they have intentionally easy access to ammunition so they can reload as fast as possible.

Here's an example, just skip to 1:34.

 

[drummer93]

nah, that's not a good example. They are shooting something at dozens of meters and it seems they not aim something in particular, they are spraying bullets and they take their time. In other hand, it is important to see how a weapon respond too, so the better approximation about WWII weapons that we have are the videos that I talked about. It's not same reload a Sten to reload a Lebel.

I don't know what you mean with "easy access to ammunition". They use an approximation of original equipment. I know it is not the same as a real combat situation, but it is a simulation, and I prefer it

 

[Aniallator]

nah, that's not a good example. They are shooting something at dozens of meters and it seems they not aim something in particular, they are spraying bullets and they take their time. In other hand, it is important to see how a weapon respond too, so the better approximation about WWII weapons that we have are the videos that I talked about. It's not same reload a Sten to reload a Lebel.

I don't see what makes you think that reloading in a combat situation is any different when ten meters away from the enemy, or a hundred meters away? It's just not. Your goal is to reload your weapon as fast as you can, so that you can put fire downrange; it's not like because the enemy is a bit further away, you're just relaxed and reloading slowly. The guys in the video are actually MARSOC, so they're not known for screwing around.

I don't know what you mean with "easy access to ammunition". They use an approximation of original equipment. I know it is not the same as a real combat situation, but it is a simulation, and I prefer it

Simulation? But all they're doing is shooting WW2 weapons, they're not trying to simulate anything. They're just standing, relaxed, with ammunition in their pocket as they shoot at static metal targets on a firing range. War - let alone WW2 - is rather different

 

[mmiedzianyy]

Don't say that if you are 300 metres away from the enemy, hiding in pretty safe place and doing responsive fire is the same when you are in the trenches, firing on very short range when literally every second counts. Usain Bolt could wait for the opportunity and stab you with a knife while slow reloading.
What i don't like in Insurgency is that when you changed the magazine - which is done in reasonable time - character is messing arround with a bolt way too slow..


As i said before, in combat situation i don't imagine myself changing mags and putting empty in a pouch. You see that in a video, so they have enough time for that.

 

[drummer93]

I don't see what makes you think that reloading in a combat situation is any different when ten meters away from the enemy, or a hundred meters away? It's just not. Your goal is to reload your weapon as fast as you can, so that you can put fire downrange; it's not like because the enemy is a bit further away, you're just relaxed and reloading slowly. The guys in the video are actually MARSOC, so they're not known for screwing around.

What mmied said

Simulation? But all they're doing is shooting WW2 weapons, they're not trying to simulate anything. They're just standing, relaxed, with ammunition in their pocket as they shoot at static metal targets on a firing range. War - let alone WW2 - is rather different

You have to see InRangeTV. What they do is not relaxed in any point xD

Ok I will put this example. See how they wear out physically and simulate different kind of combat situation (long range, close quarter..)


[video=youtube;cOUfPX_y4Nk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOUfPX_y4Nk[/video]


See how the weapons respond in different situations. That is very very important too.

 

[Killen]

I play softair with friends and when i need to change magazine (that doesn't happen very often) it takes me more than if i was at home!
I agree Mmied, some people usually drop the mag to the ground but i usually put it in my empty pouch

 

[Aniallator]

Don't say that if you are 300 metres away from the enemy, hiding in pretty safe place and doing responsive fire is the same when you are in the trenches, firing on very short range when literally every second counts. Usain Bolt could wait for the opportunity and stab you with a knife while slow reloading.
What i don't like in Insurgency is that when you changed the magazine - which is done in reasonable time - character is messing arround with a bolt way too slow..

In combat reloading is reloading, regardless of how close you are to the enemy, and getting it done fast is going to be in the forefront of your mind. When you're close to the enemy your adrenaline is pumping, for sure, and as you pointed out you'd feel that every second counts. None of that necessarily equates to a faster reload, though. I'm not saying you never try to reload faster when you feel how close you are to the enemy, but I think it's far better to replicate the majority of reloads where they're not a super fast thing, rather than the minority of reloads that are.

As i said before, in combat situation i don't imagine myself changing mags and putting empty in a pouch. You see that in a video, so they have enough time for that.

You can't judge that though, because whether you keep or drop a used magazine depends totally on the specific situation, and your own personal preference. For example, you might keep a used magazine if you're running low on magazines, or you might keep a used magazine if you're close to the enemy but not on point. It depends.

You have to see InRangeTV. What they do is not relaxed in any point xD

Ok I will put this example. See how they wear out physically and simulate different kind of combat situation (long range, close quarter..)


[video=youtube;cOUfPX_y4Nk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOUfPX_y4Nk[/video]


See how the weapons respond in different situations. That is very very important too.

Ah, this video In this one, at least, they can somewhat simulate things, and it's cool to see the performance differences between the two weapons... and then knowing we'll be able to see them ourselves before long in TW! Anyway, count the seconds it takes them to take out a new clip and begin inserting it into the magazine (I don't mean fully insert it and work the bolt), it's two to three seconds depending on if they were moving or not. That's a realistic time (again, everything we're talking about is the time it takes to drop a used magazine or return it to its pouch, and take out a new one). What I don't want to see that it takes a second or less to take out and begin inserting a new clip; watch the TW No. 4 Mk. I showcase, and you'll see that it takes half a second to a second for the character to take out a new clip and begin inserting it. I hope I'm making sense Now try to imagine Ian and Karl doing all that when they're in the middle of this.

Yeah...

I play softair with friends and when i need to change magazine (that doesn't happen very often) it takes me more than if i was at home!
I agree Mmied, some people usually drop the mag to the ground but i usually put it in my empty pouch

Haha, you mean airsoft But yeah, just being in that state of mind you don't reload as fast, let alone when you're wearing 50 pounds of gear reloading a nine pound rifle as bullets whip past you.

 

[Killen]

Haha, you mean airsoft But yeah, just being in that state of mind you don't reload as fast, let alone when you're wearing 50 pounds of gear reloading a nine pound rifle as bullets whip past you.

Wooopsie, yes! In Italy it's the same. Softair or Airsoft

 

[drummer93]

[MENTION=2108]Aniallator[/MENTION], ok at this point I can see that both can comprehend each other, and I think that we want the same . I don't want fast reloads, no, I want realistic reloads as fast as possible. That implicates not waste time in unnecessary things. About drop the magazine, that's all about the situation. In the middle of an intense combat you will drop it. In Argentina, the army trains the soldiers to change the FAL magazine hitting the used one with the new one. I couldn't find a video about the FAL, but you can see this, that is the same process:

 

[FlyingR]

Something like this except maybe a bit slower?

 

[drummer93]

The problem with that animation is the new mag, it requires more time to extract it from your pouch. Consider that the guy of the video I posted is a f*cking Terminator xD