Medics

[Aniallator]

@Aniallator I think we have to exclude from your idea the indirect enemy fire, like the artillery. What do you think about that?

Agreed, and perhaps grenades? Or not?

 

[drummer93]

Agreed, and perhaps grenades? Or not?

I think not exclude grenades. Maybe an enemy could use it in his favor, throwing a grenade when a medic is attending to a wounded, or something like that

 

[FlyingR]

For the first point, how do you know if the medic killed because it was for self-defense or defending the wounded or not? How would you differentiate that?

Then again, what would happen if there is a grenade, artillery, stray bullet? It would be normal, as in, medic dies and loses a ticket and enemy doesn't lose anything. How do you code to differentiate a stray bullet by being under suppression or whatever to someone killing you for the hell of it?

 

[drummer93]

For the first point, how do you know if the medic killed because it was for self-defense or defending the wounded or not? How would you differentiate that?

I know what you men, but is really difficult determinate what is self-defense. You can't code that because it depends a lot on the situation. We are trying to search something not too complex to do, that allow the medics use their weapon if they consider it necessary

 

[FlyingR]

I know what you men, but is really difficult determinate what is self-defense. You can't code that because it depends a lot on the situation. We are trying to search something not too complex to do, that allow the medics use their weapon if they consider it necessary

Yes I know, that's what I'm saying, it's quite complicated. Because you also have to consider, what if someone is aiming at you? Even if they don't want to shoot at you? Can the medic shoot that person? Or would you have to wait until you would be shot at?

The simplest solution would be to remove weapons from the medics, so that if you shoot the medic you would be penalized unless it's from grenade, stray bullet or artillery. Since that is not realistic, we will not do so.

 

[drummer93]

The simplest solution would be to remove weapons from the medics, so that if you shoot the medic you would be penalized unless it's from grenade, stray bullet or artillery. Since that is not realistic, we will not do so.

yes, and we come back to the original idea, but [MENTION=147]VonMudra[/MENTION] doesn't like it

 

[Aniallator]

For the first point, how do you know if the medic killed because it was for self-defense or defending the wounded or not? How would you differentiate that?

Then again, what would happen if there is a grenade, artillery, stray bullet? It would be normal, as in, medic dies and loses a ticket and enemy doesn't lose anything. How do you code to differentiate a stray bullet by being under suppression or whatever to someone killing you for the hell of it?

You could make it so medics can kill enemies without penalty if enemies fire rounds near the medic, but that wouldn't make sense, because as you pointed out there are stray rounds as well as suppressing fire. Perhaps, then, the ticket penalty medics get for killing an enemy should be reduced to one ticket. This wouldn't unbalance anything, because if this reduced ticket penalty makes a foolish medic opt to kill an enemy, the enemy's ticket penalty for killing that medic will have been removed (because the medic killed an enemy). So while allowing medics to conduct self defense with a minor penalty, it still prevents them from killing enemies as if they weren't a medic, which won't be easy anyway considering they're armed with a pistol.

As for grenades, that can't really be helped because the thrower usually won't know there's a medic on the receiving end. Unlike artillery and mortars, which shouldn't incur any penalties because there's no way you could know you're dropping rounds on a medic, a grenade should still incur a penalty, though maybe it could be more lenient (like five tickets instead of ten).

 

[drummer93]

You could make it so medics can kill enemies without penalty if enemies fire rounds near the medic, but that wouldn't make sense, because as you pointed out there are stray rounds as well as suppressing fire. Perhaps, then, the ticket penalty medics get for killing an enemy should be reduced to one ticket. This wouldn't unbalance anything, because if this reduced ticket penalty makes a foolish medic opt to kill an enemy, the enemy's ticket penalty for killing that medic will have been removed (because the medic killed an enemy). So while allowing medics to conduct self defense with a minor penalty, it still prevents them from killing enemies as if they weren't a medic, which won't be easy anyway considering they're armed with a pistol.

yes I think you are right

 

[FlyingR]

yes, and we come back to the original idea, but @VonMudra doesn't like it

I know! VonMudraaaaaaaaa! What if we give the medic characters guns in their holsters but can't really use them? They are just for realistic and aesthetic effects?
Yeah? xD

Maybe the devs already have a great idea and we are just wasting our time discussing this?

 

[mmiedzianyy]

Maybe medic should have a gun(pistol) and use it as the rest of the infantry and be killed as well without penatly for the enemy unless he is helping wounded? How to recognise that? My second idea is to set a slot for a medic for "helping" like walking without a gun. If medic enables this slot, i.e. after pressing "1" it has to help wounded and the gun slot is locked. Gun is being unlocked everytime medic helped the injured. The time medic is healing soldiers( after pressing slot 1 and picking his first aid equipment: "2","3","4","5") is immune. He can follow his squad everywhere and its untouchable, but if he is carrying a gun, then killing him is rewarded as the rest of the team. How to stop medics from doing recon? Simply circle the area of being arround the last man of the team for 30 metres. If a medic outrun squad he can be easily captured or killed. Even if he is on his healing slot. By captured i mean taken prison and disabled. Then he can respawn and join the team. Disobedience of capturing order as a prisoner can be executed and is not being punished. How to do capture orded? You can press a capture button, then point the "crosshair" on enemy medic/soldier until he is 15 metres away. What do you think?

PS. of course killing medic on his primary slot is punished hard. Always think first before you shoot the medic!

 

[FlyingR]

Maybe medic should have a gun(pistol) and use it as the rest of the infantry and be killed as well without penatly for the enemy unless he is helping wounded? How to recognise that? My second idea is to set a slot for a medic for "helping" like walking without a gun. If medic enables this slot, i.e. after pressing "1" it has to help wounded and the gun slot is locked. Gun is being unlocked everytime medic helped the injured. The time medic is healing soldiers( after pressing slot 1 and picking his first aid equipment: "2","3","4","5") is immune. He can follow his squad everywhere and its untouchable, but if he is carrying a gun, then killing him is rewarded as the rest of the team. How to stop medics from doing recon? Simply circle the area of being arround the last man of the team for 30 metres. If a medic outrun squad he can be easily captured or killed. Even if he is on his healing slot. By captured i mean taken prison and disabled. Then he can respawn and join the team. Disobedience of capturing order as a prisoner can be executed and is not being punished. How to do capture orded? You can press a capture button, then point the "crosshair" on enemy medic/soldier until he is 15 metres away. What do you think?

PS. of course killing medic on his primary slot is punished hard. Always think first before you shoot the medic!

The thing with the medic having a gun and pretend to use it to engage enemies is a bit too much. I mean, the medic's role is to get the lightly wounded back to the fight and the heavy wounded "back to base alive". Of course this being a game I wouldn't mind at all so your idea works pretty well, since the medic can also get a dose of action. You press 1 which is weapon slot, so now you have no "protection", you press any of your equipment and you have the immunity. Obviously except for artillery.

Now how would the devs deal with stay bullets, suppression and grenades (grenades could be thrown to the medics being alone purposely)?
As for medics going out of bands so to speak, I prefer medics not being allowed to enter undisputed areas or deep into enemy territory. Unless he is there with the Section destroying artillery, tanks, sniper, etc.

For now having capture system is excessive and too much for the devs to do. It would be best to keep it simple for them to actually do it.

 

[Aniallator]

Maybe medic should have a gun(pistol) and use it as the rest of the infantry and be killed as well without penatly for the enemy unless he is helping wounded? How to recognise that? My second idea is to set a slot for a medic for "helping" like walking without a gun. If medic enables this slot, i.e. after pressing "1" it has to help wounded and the gun slot is locked. Gun is being unlocked everytime medic helped the injured. The time medic is healing soldiers( after pressing slot 1 and picking his first aid equipment: "2","3","4","5") is immune. He can follow his squad everywhere and its untouchable, but if he is carrying a gun, then killing him is rewarded as the rest of the team. How to stop medics from doing recon? Simply circle the area of being arround the last man of the team for 30 metres. If a medic outrun squad he can be easily captured or killed. Even if he is on his healing slot. By captured i mean taken prison and disabled. Then he can respawn and join the team. Disobedience of capturing order as a prisoner can be executed and is not being punished. How to do capture orded? You can press a capture button, then point the "crosshair" on enemy medic/soldier until he is 15 metres away. What do you think?

PS. of course killing medic on his primary slot is punished hard. Always think first before you shoot the medic!

The issue with the first idea is, how would you define helping wounded? When you're near wounded players, or when you're treating wounded players? The former could be abused, because there could be one wounded person in the section, penalizing the medic's death, and the latter doesn't make sense just because you loose protection when you're not treating a wounded player, so for example when moving from one wounded player to the next.

For the second idea, if the only time you can't use your pistol is when it's locked, and it's only locked when treating people, and you can't use your pistol while treating people anyway, what's the real point? And as with the first idea, medic protection doesn't really make sense if it's only enabled when treating players or when near wounded players.

@FlyingR also, for the tickets idea, just think about it like PR; medics would be treated in TW like civilians are treated in PR. And in PR, if a civilian somehow was able to use a gun and kill one of your buddies, wouldn't it make sense that the ticket penalty for killing a civilian would be removed for that civilian?

 

[drummer93]

just give a f***ing pistol to the medics and sent to hell the Geneva Convention hahahahaha

 

[FlyingR]

[MENTION=2108]Aniallator[/MENTION] I know, I sort of based the idea of the civilians as if they get shot the enemy loses point but yeah whatever works and is realistic

just give a f***ing pistol to the medics and sent to hell the Geneva Convention hahahahaha

And you wanted to write a f***ing Medic System Documentation hahahaha! :laugh:

I trust that the devs will do the right thing. That is all!

 

[drummer93]

And you wanted to write a f***ing Medic System Documentation hahahaha! :laugh:

And I will write it. It will say:

1) Give pistols to medics
2) Sent to hell de Geneva Convention

 

[drummer93]

Really, I think what @Aniallator said is correct. I think it is a solid idea. Maybe some little details are not perfect, but the game can't be perfect

 

[FlyingR]

And I will write it. It will say:

1) Give pistols to medics
2) Sent to hell de Geneva Convention

Hahaha so in-depth, nice!

Yeah sure, I really don't mind, now we gotta see if the team implements it

 

[drummer93]

Yeah sure, I really don't mind, now we gotta see if the team implements it

if they are really interested I could make some kind of documentation to clear all this debate... *cough* [MENTION=1]General Naga[/MENTION] *cough*

 

[VonMudra]

And it's stuff like this that just makes me still feel that medic isn't a viable class in a WW2 game. It just creates over-complication, questions about war crimes, and takes players away from the main action of the game.

 

[drummer93]

And it's stuff like this that just makes me still feel that medic isn't a viable class in a WW2 game. It just creates over-complication, questions about war crimes, and takes players away from the main action of the game.

yes. I always think exactly what are you saying. But we are trying to think a solution because a lot of people want that class. In other hand, could be interesting do it in an innovative way. But I always say the same: If you can't implement something in the correct way is better you don't implement it.