DerJoachim
Member
I conceded that shovels were used in WW1 because of trench warfare, a thing that only massively happened in WW1, thats ofcourse why as we all said they were used effectively.
But we are talking about a WW2 game, and unless this is that arcade kid game of H&G , shovels have no place above a bayonet as a melee weapon.
Also what kind of historian are you????(this is not a provocative question, just want to know what kind of studies you make)Austrian made clubs were issued to finish off gassed enemy troops, wounded and overall to clean the "trash" from the trenches without using ammo, it wasnt used as a charging weapon 1 on 1 with anemy standing still, the famous use of medieval weapons was mostly made in the italian front when Austrian gassed alot of italians and coudlnt finish them off, so they "seal" clubbed them.
Then tell me why stabbing weapons are still used to these days as standard equipment, if the shovels are so amazing, the bayonets were unwieldly because the WW1 rifles were actually too big and unfit for trench hand to hand combat, you are questioning bayonet+ standard issued rifle, which is different.
Im questioning the effectiveness of a stabbing weapon over a shovel, because no way on earth you can dodge a swift stab rather than put your arms up and hope that the shovel break your forearm instead of broking your neck, putting your arms up in protection is the first things people do in self defense, good luck hitting a neck unless you are a samurai, ill take a couple of broken bones over bleeding the hell out or having my organ ripped a part any day.
Yes ofcourse a shovel can decapitate you, but we are not all Commandos in Schwarzenegger movies, even a kid can stab effectively, it is more immediate and easy to do, imagine a trained soldier.
Stab in legs, stab in the stomach, stab in the neck = if you dont die in the next 10 minutes you die by the end of the day, organ failure, you bleed out, a couple of broken bones?? nothing the body cant heal itself, you dont even need a medevac.
We are not talking about swiss knifes afterall.
Still i dont see the reason why a coupel of ppl use WW1 as an argument if the point of the discussion is using shovels in a WW2 game where the massive trenches concept was already obsolete, you want to go all shovels??? maybe try VERDUN, that is a nice game and fit very well the discussion.
I Edit a bit to make it more swift and clear, forget about my personal rant opinion, but in WW2 Early Fallshirmjagers jumped out with nothing but Pistol knifes and grenades, and alot of bayonets fights took place against New Zealanders, then you can also take the Ghoorkas and theyr big ass Kukris when they charged Germans camping Monte Cassino, then ofcourse we can all talk about how shovels were amazing in WW1 and could be also amazing in a WW1 game.
But we are talking about a WW2 game, and unless this is that arcade kid game of H&G , shovels have no place above a bayonet as a melee weapon.
Also what kind of historian are you????(this is not a provocative question, just want to know what kind of studies you make)Austrian made clubs were issued to finish off gassed enemy troops, wounded and overall to clean the "trash" from the trenches without using ammo, it wasnt used as a charging weapon 1 on 1 with anemy standing still, the famous use of medieval weapons was mostly made in the italian front when Austrian gassed alot of italians and coudlnt finish them off, so they "seal" clubbed them.
Then tell me why stabbing weapons are still used to these days as standard equipment, if the shovels are so amazing, the bayonets were unwieldly because the WW1 rifles were actually too big and unfit for trench hand to hand combat, you are questioning bayonet+ standard issued rifle, which is different.
Im questioning the effectiveness of a stabbing weapon over a shovel, because no way on earth you can dodge a swift stab rather than put your arms up and hope that the shovel break your forearm instead of broking your neck, putting your arms up in protection is the first things people do in self defense, good luck hitting a neck unless you are a samurai, ill take a couple of broken bones over bleeding the hell out or having my organ ripped a part any day.
Yes ofcourse a shovel can decapitate you, but we are not all Commandos in Schwarzenegger movies, even a kid can stab effectively, it is more immediate and easy to do, imagine a trained soldier.
Stab in legs, stab in the stomach, stab in the neck = if you dont die in the next 10 minutes you die by the end of the day, organ failure, you bleed out, a couple of broken bones?? nothing the body cant heal itself, you dont even need a medevac.
We are not talking about swiss knifes afterall.
Still i dont see the reason why a coupel of ppl use WW1 as an argument if the point of the discussion is using shovels in a WW2 game where the massive trenches concept was already obsolete, you want to go all shovels??? maybe try VERDUN, that is a nice game and fit very well the discussion.
I Edit a bit to make it more swift and clear, forget about my personal rant opinion, but in WW2 Early Fallshirmjagers jumped out with nothing but Pistol knifes and grenades, and alot of bayonets fights took place against New Zealanders, then you can also take the Ghoorkas and theyr big ass Kukris when they charged Germans camping Monte Cassino, then ofcourse we can all talk about how shovels were amazing in WW1 and could be also amazing in a WW1 game.
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. Both wars, we were untrained and really bad armed. But give us the right equipment, and we will kick your asses 
