Suppression and Experience

[FlyingR]

I was talking with drummer93 yesterday, and he mentioned a few interesting things. We were talking about suppression and he said that the reason why PR and Red Orchestra have a system of suppression that while you're being shot, your screen becomes dark and blurry, it's because they are simulating what a real soldier would face in real life under that situation.
His vision wouldn't go dark nor blurry, but it's the simulation that under heavy fire many soldiers, especially the new ones, would freeze and some even panic.

I believe that TW should do this... have the suppression vision, however, like RO, experience should be important factor in this system.

I would like that the newer players should have difficulty to move, to reload, and other actions that while being suppressed could simulate. Whereas the experienced soldiers could move and act with better speed a precision. This would depend also on the intensity of the suppression. It wouldn't be the same if one guy was shooting at you then 10 guys with mgs.

Now if this would be implemented, then it would be good to have individual scores as well, but like I mentioned in another post, it would be the total squad's score divided by the squad members. As you rank up the scores, you will get more experience and therefore better mobility under stressful situations and maybe better weapons, like smgs, mgs, pistols, and such.

 

[mmiedzianyy]

But do you think that if you were newbie, its a good idea to have additional difficulty in not only learning how the game works but with game itself, which hinders in the most dangerous situations?

 

[Sydd]

Suppression good idea. But equal for all experienced or not.

 

[VonMudra]

As has been discussed multiple times before here, we do plan on implementing a full suppression system. So just wait and see.

 

[Aniallator]

Suppression good idea. But equal for all experienced or not.

Me agree.

I was talking with drummer93 yesterday, and he mentioned a few interesting things. We were talking about suppression and he said that the reason why PR and Red Orchestra have a system of suppression that while you're being shot, your screen becomes dark and blurry, it's because they are simulating what a real soldier would face in real life under that situation.
His vision wouldn't go dark nor blurry, but it's the simulation that under heavy fire many soldiers, especially the new ones, would freeze and some even panic.

I believe that TW should do this... have the suppression vision, however, like RO, experience should be important factor in this system.

I would like that the newer players should have difficulty to move, to reload, and other actions that while being suppressed could simulate. Whereas the experienced soldiers could move and act with better speed a precision. This would depend also on the intensity of the suppression. It wouldn't be the same if one guy was shooting at you then 10 guys with mgs.

Now if this would be implemented, then it would be good to have individual scores as well, but like I mentioned in another post, it would be the total squad's score divided by the squad members. As you rank up the scores, you will get more experience and therefore better mobility under stressful situations and maybe better weapons, like smgs, mgs, pistols, and such.

We'll have suppression of course, as it's a realism feature... but experience? No!

I dumped games like H&G because of the grinding. I don't want that in TW! It's not fun, or realistic.

Not fun...
You're a seasoned RO2 player, and get the hang of TW in no time. You're better than other players who've played TW longer, and yet, those players reload faster, and aren't as fearful of enemy fire?

Not realistic...
What about a few years from now, when we have the US sector of Normandy, and thus the Fallschirmjäger. You're new to TW, and playing as a Fallschirmjäger. You're an elite soldier. A Fallschirmjäger, FFS! And yet, you're reloads are clumsy and your fear of enemy fire great when compared to the Russian-POW-turned-Wehrmacht-soldier next to you, who's clearly in some kind of vodka stupor!

 

[drummer93]

Yes I agree with Aniallator. I mean, not because is not realistic, but because in this game you will play as diferent types of units any time. Maybe one match as a Fallschirmjäger and the next one as a simple Heer private. Something similar to this, is that the squad leader could have some qualities to face better this kind situations, but I dont know, what do you think guys?

Anyway, the objetive of the supression fire is neutralize the enemy, and is an effective tactic. I dont want Rambos in the game haha

 

[Fegelein]

I never really liked suppression in games. They always overdo it. I never caught myself being under fire but I'm pretty sure our eyes don't get blurred by that. For me it would be better if the edge of our vision became a bit blurred and not the whole picture. For example that's how suppression worked in the game 'Brothers In Arms: Road To Hill 30' and it worked great.

It would also be great if we had to press for example 'F' to clean the dirt off our eyes when something explodes in front of us.

 

[FlyingR]

Well for the experience it was an idea, if you guys and dev don't want it then sure hahaha! I really don't mind either way Mudra... the thing is... we don't want to wait hahahaha! But yeah, it's really great that you guys have that sorted out!

 

[Aniallator]

@Fegelein when a bullet whips near your head in a game, you think "Meh" and keep shooting. I've never been in combat, but when a bullet whips near your head IRL, your going to jump into cover like there's no tomorrow (if you remain in the open, there won't be). By blurring your vision, suppression removes your ocular awareness; you are thus inclined to take cover. Sure, some games overdo suppression, but generally suppression in games is realistic.

IMO, in TW there's no need for RO2's colorblinding... that was a bit much. A simple Insurgency-esque blurring system is fine.

 

[Fegelein]

I agree with you [MENTION=2108]Aniallator[/MENTION]. The way I see it there should be a different system to replace Suppression. As I said when a bullet hits something in front of you (Wood, concrete, dirt etc ), your eyes should get dirty and your vision would blur, forcing you to take some seconds to clean your eyes under cover. You could press for example 'F' to do that. If you don't then you will have to wait for your character to blink a lot of time until his eyes clean up. Both would force the player to find cover because he wont be able to shoot back either because he is taking time to clean his eyes or because he is blinking and his eyes are still blurred.

 

[FlyingR]

Very well put Ani, I would see more the blurring being a psychological impact rather than a physical. In real life, many can panic, or immediately just get down and take cover. This panic and/or thought of taking cover is thus being represented by blurry vision, which enables the player from having a clear aim on the enemy while being suppressed, because in reality most soldiers would be forced to keep their heads down.

 

[Pjosip]

Just because I am new to the game does not neccesarely mean the soldiers I potray is new. Same goes vice versa, just because I am a skilled war veteran does not mean the soldier I fight ass is no more than a rookie on his first day of fighting.

I think having nor "veteran" nor "rookie" awards/penalties would be the best, and leave it to player skill.

 

[Aniallator]

But [MENTION=1633]Fegelein[/MENTION], rather than implementing that, doesn't a blur system seem simpler? No need to wipe grit from your eyes all the time, 'cause that'll just get annoying at some point. I suppose what you're saying is technically more realistic? But practically, it's not.

 

[SQPD]

I'm pretty sure none of us want the same "suppression" effect that Heroes and Generals has.

On another note, new soldiers, while suppressed, should have a chance of successfully reloading (or any other non shooting action) and a chance of failing it, like an RNG. The reload would have the character's hand shaking, and as the character gains more experience, the shaking wears off and the chance to successfully reload increases.

 

[Aniallator]

On another note, new soldiers, while suppressed, should have a chance of successfully reloading (or any other non shooting action) and a chance of failing it, like an RNG. The reload would have the character's hand shaking, and as the character gains more experience, the shaking wears off and the chance to successfully reload increases.

But this entails an experience system... and what defines an experience system? How will new players play the game as opposed to those who've been playing for longer? How long before a new player is "experienced"? What animations are required to portray a failed reload?

Don't mind me though, I have a thing against experience systems

 

[Sydd]

I'm pretty sure none of us want the same "suppression" effect that Heroes and Generals has.

On another note, new soldiers, while suppressed, should have a chance of successfully reloading (or any other non shooting action) and a chance of failing it, like an RNG. The reload would have the character's hand shaking, and as the character gains more experience, the shaking wears off and the chance to successfully reload increases.

Eh, the devs made it quite clear that there will be no such system in play.. at all... I mean the experience.
As for the suppression, the devs keep teasing us and they certainly seem to be quite proud of what they have accomplished with their suppression mechanics so we can't wait to see what they have in store for us.

 

[McDaddy]

I love the idea of suppression, but what I dislike about most suppression effect is you can't see, I've never been shot but i've been in some live fire range, and by that I mean, both shooting and down the range raising the targets where the wizz and the crack are heard, I love the idea of having a harder time reloading, since the main affect of supression fire is that you lose your coordination, what I personnaly think would be the best way to achieve a realistic supression system, that would take care of the RAMBo like players, would be to add a blurry or dark sides of the screen to make a tunnel like vision, but that you can see clearly in the middle like in real life, from what I heard from vets, is that you get a tunnel vision and the more stressed you become the smaller you can see,
but you learn a certain brathing technique that reduce your heart beat, so you can control your stress, but your fine motor skills are kinda shitty. but to make it clear:
-Blurry side vision
-Longer reload times
-Make it hard to shoot, like weapon sway
-depending on how much you're supressed the affect worsen, like when you're out in the open getting shot by example 2 MG, the only thing you could hardly do is find the nearest cover, since all of your weapon handling skills are becoming ****,
-Maybe have a key where when you press you enter deep breathing which would make you recover from the supression faster, but while holding it you coundnt do anything else

the main thing I would not like too see is a complete blur since you become a sitting duck you can't find cover so you're just in the middle of the open waiting for a headshot,
And movement speed penality, because your adrenaline kicks in and you would move probably faster than you ever will.

To put it in an image that you guys can imagine, lets say, You're walking down an alley, you stop by the side of a house wanting to cross the road, as soon as you take your first shot heavy MG fire starts pourring down on you, the only thing you're able to see is the other side of the road, so you hope for the best sprinting for the only cover you can find, once there you're on the verge of panic you can hardly see anything you're shaking you can't feel your fingers your heart is pumping, you take a few deep breaths to lower your heart beat, youre now calm, you now remember that your squad was right behind you and that there the ones being gun downed, you pop out of cover, your now so calm your shot will be a deadly one, you aim at what you identified as the enemy and take a quick shot ending the storm of bullets that was raining on your brother

 

[FlyingR]

 

[DerJoachim]

I know it might be the wrong thread, but since ammunition and suppression are brothers i shoot my question: how we are supposed to restock our ammunition after we suppress the entire front?? you just go out of ammo and take weapons from dead friendlies/enemies or there are ammo crates or spawnpoints where you restock ammo???

 

[FlyingR]

My guess would be that apart from having Riflemen being able to drop ammo bags (always an underrated kit), only the main bases would have ammo crates, for example in Pegasus, the Brits would have ammo boxes in the gliders.

I would really love if you could pass ammo to friendlies, like drop it on the ground like you would drop a health/medic patch or something, maybe by pressing R twice?