Koenigstiger
New Member
The German machine gun is the absolute bread and butter of their infantry units its what their tactics rely on.
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Aiming - how to eliminate twitch shooting
- Thread starter titsmcgee852
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VonMudra
Well-known member
For a generally excellent view of German machine gun tactics, I highly recommend this article:
Tactical Philosophies of the Squad / der Erste Zug
Tactical Philosophies of the Squad / der Erste Zug
Koenigstiger
New Member
Interesting, we are teaching the new recruits to leapfrog in the 6th.
One reason I don't like RO2 is how ineffective suppressing fire is.
You're still able to get a shot off and kill under heavy MG fire but god forbid the enemy has a spam can (PPSH41) that thing physically shakes you about even if it's one guy shooting from 100m away.
One reason I don't like RO2 is how ineffective suppressing fire is.
You're still able to get a shot off and kill under heavy MG fire but god forbid the enemy has a spam can (PPSH41) that thing physically shakes you about even if it's one guy shooting from 100m away.
Koenigstiger
New Member
I never played project reality so I wouldn't know what that's like.
The only realistism based shooter I've played is Red Orchestra 2 and its expansion Rising Storm
All I know is that I'll never play action based shooters again.
The only realistism based shooter I've played is Red Orchestra 2 and its expansion Rising Storm
All I know is that I'll never play action based shooters again.
PR's suppression is exaggerated because it's like the only way it can be done in BF2 engine... With Cry 3 and making your own game, you have much more freedom on what you can change. You can make your character twitch and flinch, like in RO2 or make him blink when bullets are raining down. Or you can make the guns themselves less accurate while suppressed (probably easiest to do, but a bit lame). You could probably dynamically increase the sounds while suppressed too, to simulate your character getting overwhelmed from all the noise, or maybe muffle them after a big explosion. The only limit is your imagination and coding skills of your team.
Koenigstiger
New Member
Under stress you'd probably cut off sound.
If the bullets are just smashing your cover infront of you I'd like to see a lot of twitching and swaying from the player who's poopen his Panzers from all the fire coming his way but also based on the amount of bullets being fired his way.
If the bullets are just smashing your cover infront of you I'd like to see a lot of twitching and swaying from the player who's poopen his Panzers from all the fire coming his way but also based on the amount of bullets being fired his way.
Koenigstiger
New Member
We'll have to wait and see what the team are going to do in regards to that :I
Koenigstiger
New Member
Yes, but as you guys have said it's a *very* important aspect of a (semi-)realistic fps game, I really want the devs to get this right
What I mean is that we can still be able to offer constructive criticism once the game is available or when we see those mechanics at work.
titsmcgee852
Member
On suppression: I would like to see a system similar to Project Reality just because it's so damn effective, you can't see **** and you know you need to keep your head down or get out of there. With some mild flinching added, it would be the epitome of effective suppression IMO.
Kind of brings me to my next question - do devs have any ideas/features in mind to prevent lonewolfing? PR got it right but their measures are rather unforgiving.
That is true, however from what I understand, TW will be a squad based game, so it is up to the squad leader to get his squad into gear or to kick out the members that aren't cooperating/not moving up with the squad. And it would be up to the commander to coordinate the squads (Will there be a commander?)
Kind of brings me to my next question - do devs have any ideas/features in mind to prevent lonewolfing? PR got it right but their measures are rather unforgiving.
It's a long time since I played PRM but if memory serves correct they also limit access to specialist kits for lone-wolves. It's not about punishing them but ensuring that the specialists are being used to maximum effect to help the whole team.
Swaffy
Member
I don't think I've laughed this hard in a while!
Roughbeak
Member
Originally Posted by Koenigstiger
... who's poopen his Panzers from all the fire coming his way ...
I don't think I've laughed this hard in a while!
... who's poopen his Panzers from all the fire coming his way ...
I don't think I've laughed this hard in a while!
Haha.
Slashbot_427
New Member
really looking forward to this game
I tend to think it depends on how the engine calculates the various bits-
Is the bullet a trace-hit scan, or a proper calculated trajectory over time? I would prefer the latter as it lets the various guns really get their own feel due to different velocity, drop and spread.
I really hate the forced bullet spread thing ( ala TF2 for example), where there is an enforced time to wait for the crosshair ( or aim, reflexes,etc) to kick in before you can fire accurately. If I manage to spin around 180 or otherwise get the target in sight, then I don't want to wait another 2-3 seconds for some cheesy cross hair to close before being able to hit anything!
The suppression system should affect the way u can use the weapon but not whether the weapon can hit what it is aimed at. The suppression might slow down your ability to turn around slightly, or move the weapon slightly, or blur you vision slightly, but if you have the sights aimed at the target, it becomes a bullet trajectory issue. Not an artificial spread issue. The various weapons have their own mass and inertia, , so swinging a BAR around would be slower than a carbine. They have their own uses at different ranges, so a KAR98 should not work against a Thompson in a close range twitch fight. The recoil of each gun should be closely modeled on the real version, rather than a preset variable thing depending on if your tired, or just run 500m.
The scale of the maps is very important, having rifle battles at 30m is ridiculous, at 500m is challenging and rewarding.
Suppressive fire should announce itself to the recipients via some noise and a bit of blurring if really close, but it should be up to the player if they want to get up and run into the fire. It shouldn't somehow disable them from performing any kind of action. HE round from arty or tanks are a bit different due to the shock wave. If you get hit by the shock wave it should really be killing or maiming you.
I tend to think it depends on how the engine calculates the various bits-
Is the bullet a trace-hit scan, or a proper calculated trajectory over time? I would prefer the latter as it lets the various guns really get their own feel due to different velocity, drop and spread.
I really hate the forced bullet spread thing ( ala TF2 for example), where there is an enforced time to wait for the crosshair ( or aim, reflexes,etc) to kick in before you can fire accurately. If I manage to spin around 180 or otherwise get the target in sight, then I don't want to wait another 2-3 seconds for some cheesy cross hair to close before being able to hit anything!
The suppression system should affect the way u can use the weapon but not whether the weapon can hit what it is aimed at. The suppression might slow down your ability to turn around slightly, or move the weapon slightly, or blur you vision slightly, but if you have the sights aimed at the target, it becomes a bullet trajectory issue. Not an artificial spread issue. The various weapons have their own mass and inertia, , so swinging a BAR around would be slower than a carbine. They have their own uses at different ranges, so a KAR98 should not work against a Thompson in a close range twitch fight. The recoil of each gun should be closely modeled on the real version, rather than a preset variable thing depending on if your tired, or just run 500m.
The scale of the maps is very important, having rifle battles at 30m is ridiculous, at 500m is challenging and rewarding.
Suppressive fire should announce itself to the recipients via some noise and a bit of blurring if really close, but it should be up to the player if they want to get up and run into the fire. It shouldn't somehow disable them from performing any kind of action. HE round from arty or tanks are a bit different due to the shock wave. If you get hit by the shock wave it should really be killing or maiming you.
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Koenigstiger
New Member
I would hope the noise of the suppression would be the bullets hitting anything and everything around you, and that free movement is something you're able to do but firing back into it would not (Assuming that bullets flying around your face would make you flinch quite a bit)
The Thompson is heavier than the Kar98k and I mean you've got that long reach and more than likely a Seitengewehr, I'd just stab em if they were close.
The Thompson is heavier than the Kar98k and I mean you've got that long reach and more than likely a Seitengewehr, I'd just stab em if they were close.
VonMudra
Well-known member
This is more or less exactly what we are planning on doing, yes.
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