Bunny Hoppers/Dolphin Divers

[Roughbeak]

Hey community.

I just wanted to ask the question: how are we going to deal with bunny hoppers or dolphin divers?
Although it almost looks hilarious in FH2 when soldiers are doing it (it's almost fun doing it only in FH2 ), but how is TW going to address this?

Look forward to the community's opinions or devs answers.

 

[litchu]

I'd say make them get tired. Maybe give about 2 minutes of straight running, and only be able to jump a few times in row. Alsoo jumping with full gear wont make you fly all over the map, which atleast in bf3 makes you do.

 

[Troy]

Dolphin diving is a must have in my opinion! But bunny hopping isn't really needed as you can jump in the game i;m pressuming.

 

[calgoblin]

What, no jetpacks?

 

[General Naga]

The simple solution to this is a stamina/tireness system which makes it so that if you jump around you won't have the energy to run so players quickly learn to jump only when necessary to avoid getting caught in the crosshairs without enough stamina to dash for cover.

We've got a system in place which will be tweaked further when larger scale testing is underway.

 

[sHaKeNbAkE]

I like the stamina approach to the jumping portion however an infantry tactic is to drop to the prone when under fire and this can be done fairly quickly. I know in games it has been labeled "dolphin diving" and it can be annoying but I would suggest leaving in the ability for soldiers to quickly get to their bellies. However it does tire you out in real life to use infantry movement techniques which are based on the theory...."I'm up, he sees me, I'm down!" So maybe using the stamina approach to someone who rapidly is starting to get up and down (i.e. dolphin diving) may help to make if more realistic but still allow for realistic infantry movement. Sounds like you have a military adviser so I am sure you are getting good information on infantry movements techniques....cheers! xD

 

[General Naga]

That's exactly one of the things which needs to be balanced out in testing. We need to stop people "dolphin diving" (see video below for example) but allow them to be able to dive to the ground and still get themselves out of trouble if the enemy gets pinned down by covering fire etc..

 

[sHaKeNbAkE]

Yeah that's funny...one thing wrong with the animation is infantry men are taught to first drop to their knees while falling forward and hitting the ground with the butt of their weapon, then going to the prone or rolling left or ride. It is sort of one fluid motion but it is definitely not a belly flop like the video above. This video does a god job of showing the different movements and you can see from the "rush" example it's different than the belly flop. If you used those animations it might help with reducing the "dolphin dive" phenomenon. xD I would also like to add the part about being able to communicate with soldiers to the left and right of you like the video shows. I still don't think I have seen a FPS game yet that has emulated this very basic feature found on the battlefield that is essential to squad movement and their survival....at least not in a simple yet effective manner (i.e. drop down menus and rosette wheels are hard to use when getting peppered by enemy fire)

[video=youtube;VlP_BLnGzLg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlP_BLnGzLg[/video]

 

[VonMudra]

The German method is a bit different. Here is the German field manual's regimine for laying down:

"hinlegen" / der Erste Zug

Obviously in combat, this wasn't always done this of course

 

[Sir Apple]

It would perhaps be good to have physical animations for lying down and getting up. Not only would it look cool, but it would prevent dolphin diving.

 

[Raul]

It would perhaps be good to have physical animations for lying down and getting up. Not only would it look cool, but it would prevent dolphin diving.

Couldn't be better than this, this + the stamina approach can seriously get this in the realistic zone but make it so that it wouldn't be like in H&G :laugh:, the players that play the game should know what I am talking about.

The problem in that game was that you could only crouch only if you were standing, you couldn't move up to the crouch position after being prone, you needed to stand and then crouch :|.

 

[Kanga]

Couldn't be better than this, this + the stamina approach can seriously get this in the realistic zone but make it so that it wouldn't be like in H&G , the players that play the game should know what I am talking about.

The problem in that game was that you could only crouch only if you were standing, you couldn't move up to the crouch position after being prone, you needed to stand and then crouch .

Stamina along with animation is a good way to solve the diving issue.

Getting down on the ground is one thing (unless you have nades in your pockets or you land on your keys.... that's always painful), getting up is the difficult part, epeically with equipement.

The prone is rather awkward in Heroes and Generals, but I use the Lgoitect G-13 so it doesn't bother me as much. Neither does crouching, but I know a lot of players dislike it.

In my opinion, the stand/crouch/prone needs to be easy and fluent controls. By using stamina and good animation, this can act realistic, look great and solve the dolphin-diving issue.

When it comes to bunny hopping, most games seriously over exaggerate a persons ability to jump. If you try running and firing while hopping, well there is a good chance you really aren't going to be successful any of them. You can't aim, you can't jump high when you are running or if you do you limit your running. So, if a game pays attention to how a person really jumps, bunny hopping will not become an issue.

Go ahead and put on 50+ LBs. of equipment, make sure you fill up your front pockets with some nades or extra clips. Then go sprint across a field, jump and dive into a prone position. Come back and let us know if you kept all the air in your lungs in the process.

 

[Raul]

Stamina along with animation is a good way to solve the diving issue.

Getting down on the ground is one thing (unless you have nades in your pockets or you land on your keys.... that's always painful), getting up is the difficult part, epeically with equipement.

The prone is rather awkward in Heroes and Generals, but I use the Lgoitect G-13 so it doesn't bother me as much. Neither does crouching, but I know a lot of players dislike it.

In my opinion, the stand/crouch/prone needs to be easy and fluent controls. By using stamina and good animation, this can act realistic, look great and solve the dolphin-diving issue.

When it comes to bunny hopping, most games seriously over exaggerate a persons ability to jump. If you try running and firing while hopping, well there is a good chance you really aren't going to be successful any of them. You can't aim, you can't jump high when you are running or if you do you limit your running. So, if a game pays attention to how a person really jumps, bunny hopping will not become an issue.

Go ahead and put on 50+ LBs. of equipment, make sure you fill up your front pockets with some nades or extra clips. Then go sprint across a field, jump and dive into a prone position. Come back and let us know if you kept all the air in your lungs in the process.

Yeah, it would be like Tom would scream .

For your amusement gents :laugh:.

 

[Ts4EVER]

Stamina is a useless system, in fact I would leave it out entirely. Instead focus on making jumping around so detrimental to your aim and movement that it is worthless to do outside of climbing over things.

 

[Troy]

What RnL does is when sprinting and going prone at the same time they would dolphin dive, when walking or jogging etc they would just like down. That would be nice to see!

 

[Maniche]

Stamina is a useless system, in fact I would leave it out entirely.

What about sprinting, [MENTION=1126]Ts4EVER[/MENTION]?

Maniche

 

[Ts4EVER]

I would have the following system:
Normal movement mode is walking with the weapon at the ready. In that mode you move slowly, but can shoot. "Sprinting" basically means that you move faster, but can't use your weapon. Simple, elegant, and people cant use weapons while moving fast or strafing.

 

[Maniche]

I agree, but it will be both inaccurate and unrealistic if a person can sprint over X seconds, wearing full battle gear and are perhaps both tired, fatigued and so on.

Having a stamina-system (to counter excessive sprinting) as well as your idea, is the most realistic and preferred approach I believe.

Maniche

 

[LuckyOne]

^ Yeah but stamina sometimes feels "very" artificial. I mean you wouldn't stop sprinting in the middle of a street if there was a tank firing at you, no matter how tired you may be. A better design would be having virtually "unlimited" stamina but the longer you run, the more side effects you have, like heavy breathing, "blacking out", increased time to ironsights, increased weapon sway etc. Don't know how possible it is to work out a system like that though.

 

[hannibaldinski]

^ Yeah but stamina sometimes feels "very" artificial. I mean you wouldn't stop sprinting in the middle of a street if there was a tank firing at you, no matter how tired you may be. A better design would be having virtually "unlimited" stamina but the longer you run, the more side effects you have, like heavy breathing, "blacking out", increased time to ironsights, increased weapon sway etc. Don't know how possible it is to work out a system like that though.

I must agree you have a valid point. Interesting to think about how to implement something like this