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    These forums date back to the game's origins as the Crysis mod Traction Wars. Over the years the game and internet habits have evolved and discord.gg/vanguardww2 is now the principle home of the community.

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Classes in Traction Wars

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K. Steine

Member
I really hope medics become a thing. Too long have I waited to experience being a medic in a realistic type game. If medics do become a thing, I hope it does't make it so, when the medic has healed a certain amount of soldiers; he becomes useless, and is just classified as a foot soldier. Perhaps the system could be; that after the medic has run out of medical supplies, he will eventually need to use makeshift things to stop team-mates from bleeding out, but won't increase the player's actual health, because it's not come from an actual first aid kit.
 

Sir Apple

Well-known member
I really hope medics become a thing. Too long have I waited to experience being a medic in a realistic type game. If medics do become a thing, I hope it does't make it so, when the medic has healed a certain amount of soldiers; he becomes useless, and is just classified as a foot soldier. Perhaps the system could be; that after the medic has run out of medical supplies, he will eventually need to use makeshift things to stop team-mates from bleeding out, but won't increase the player's actual health, because it's not come from an actual first aid kit.


We have talked quite a bit about implementing a medic system into squads. After all, [MENTION=109]Maniche[/MENTION] was a medic in the army! We have a lot of ideas floating around about it - I personally think it would be cool if done right :)
 

K. Steine

Member
Great. Also, I'd like to ask about these bandages. Will they completely restore your health, or restore it enough for you to be able to keep going? And will you have the ability to use these bandages on team mates. If I was alone with a friend, and he was shot up, and I was fine; but he had run out of bandages; but my bandage supply was fine; I think I should have the option to help him out a little. Just dropping in ideas; because I like to do that :p
 

Maniche

Level Designer
Pathfinder Games
Also, I'd like to ask about these bandages. Will they completely restore your health, or restore it enough for you to be able to keep going? And will you have the ability to use these bandages on team mates. If I was alone with a friend, and he was shot up, and I was fine; but he had run out of bandages; but my bandage supply was fine; I think I should have the option to help him out a little.

We've discussed it a bit in another thread actually, but I'm afraid we can't comment just yet on how we want to achieve "healing" (being bandages, TQ, make-shift stuff etc.), as it really comes down to balancing and proper implementation.

But I'm glad to see the Community taking part of the development (yes, you're!), and it's nice to get some 2nd and 3rd opinions about ideas.

Thank you.

Maniche
 

Wittmann

Member
Any kind of sniper will be pick up, far too few of them to be spawnable. As for medics, we are unsure on a system for medics that could be plausibly realistic...we shall see.

And yes, mortar/arty support will be ingame.

Why would Sniper be a pick up at opposed to a 1-slot per server class system? Snipers were trained professionals (well we hope), as are medics. Being the guy to rush off to the sniper spawn and grabbing it first is just going to make the game less team-oriented and make people compete with each other for weapon drops.

Same with the medic, it's a job that people train for. The medic is knowledgeable, and assigned gear to fulfill his role, the medic isn't whoever stumbles over a bag of medical supplies. I'm okay with people picking up weapons from dead bodies, if the machine gunner goes down, I want to be able to run over there and take up his place so our squad still has fire support, but I don't want to be racing my team to grab the sniper rifle.
 

Sir Apple

Well-known member
Why would Sniper be a pick up at opposed to a 1-slot per server class system? Snipers were trained professionals (well we hope), as are medics. Being the guy to rush off to the sniper spawn and grabbing it first is just going to make the game less team-oriented and make people compete with each other for weapon drops.

Same with the medic, it's a job that people train for. The medic is knowledgeable, and assigned gear to fulfill his role, the medic isn't whoever stumbles over a bag of medical supplies. I'm okay with people picking up weapons from dead bodies, if the machine gunner goes down, I want to be able to run over there and take up his place so our squad still has fire support, but I don't want to be racing my team to grab the sniper rifle.

Yeah, you do raise a valid point. I was thinking (I believe it was mentioned earlier) that things like medics should be squad-extended classes. So essentially, a player can only see and play as a medic IF in a squad. If the player is not in a squad they will not have the chance to play as a medic. I honestly am very in favor of this or something similar - if we put all the work into a medic class it would be silly to only have it some random-ass pickup kit.

Snipers would be handled different (most likely), if they aren't strictly limited to pickup kits they would still be, as you said, limited to 1-2 per team on a ratio of the players in game. So if the server is not full, and maybe 11 people per side, only 1 person can play as a sniper. If there are 0-10 players on a team, the sniper class is not available. This way it also keeps everyone active and moving until servers really fill up.
 

Wittmann

Member
Yeah, you do raise a valid point. I was thinking (I believe it was mentioned earlier) that things like medics should be squad-extended classes. So essentially, a player can only see and play as a medic IF in a squad. If the player is not in a squad they will not have the chance to play as a medic. I honestly am very in favor of this or something similar - if we put all the work into a medic class it would be silly to only have it some random-ass pickup kit.

Snipers would be handled different (most likely), if they aren't strictly limited to pickup kits they would still be, as you said, limited to 1-2 per team on a ratio of the players in game. So if the server is not full, and maybe 11 people per side, only 1 person can play as a sniper. If there are 0-10 players on a team, the sniper class is not available. This way it also keeps everyone active and moving until servers really fill up.


I agree, I think making only riflemen available for Non-Squaded up players would help a lot. It would let someone kinda float around some, learn the flow of the game, and could be justified in that, squads would occasionally pick up people along the way, someone who got lost, or wounded, etc.

I also think that squads should have certain layouts (let's go with 16 man squads for ease of discussion). The Commander could, at the beginning of the match, select what layout the squad will have (and it's set for the round). So My team has two squads, any number squads per side + a support detachment + Commander

Each Squad is built around 3 fire-teams (12 Players + 3 Special Classes + a Squad Leader)

A fire-team can be made of of 4 people (3 Pvts. and a Corporal)

"Rifle Teams" (Rifles, one grenade, etc.)
"Assault Teams" (SMGs, 3 Grenades, etc.)
"Light Machine Gun Teams" (One LMG, and some Riflemen with ammo, etc.)
"Anti-Tank Teams" (Recoiless Rifles, Anti-Tank Grenades, Rifles, etc.)
"Pioneer/Sapper Teams" (One Flamethrower, Rifles, Satchel Charges, 2 grenades)
"Mortar Teams" (One Mortar, and some riflemen with extra shells, etc.)

Special Classes Would Include
1 Medic (Medical Equipment, Rifle [handgun?], etc.)
1 Marksman (Scoped Rifle, Handgun, etc.)
1 Radioman (Has a map, binoculars with which he can mark coordinates for artillery, commander can choose which "mark" to drop arty on)

And then the Squad leader (SMG or Semi-Auto Rifle, Grenade, Smoke Grenade, Binoculars, Map)

The Platoon Lieutenant would have an SMG, Grenade, Smoke Grenade, Map, Binoculars, and the ability to call in artillery on his radio (only where a Radioman had already marked for artillery)

The support detachment would be picked at the beginning of the match, and could be something like...

"Heavy Machine Gun Team" (One HMG, One Person Carrying a tripod, rifles, and everyone with some ammo for it)
"Anti-Tank Gun Team" (An anti-tank gun like a Pak38, rifles, everyone has shells, takes two people to move it, etc.)
"Tank" (Use your imagination xD )

At the beginning of each round you could have everyone vote on a commander, the commander than has 60 seconds to select what he wants for his force, and then everyone selects their class (this also helps prevent the 'I have a slightly slower computer so I load last and get stuck as a rifleman every-time' syndrome). This would also mean that players are more likely to vote for people with microphones to be the commander.

You could integrate it so that beyond local VOIP, there could be a separate button for Radio VOIP (for people with radios), so that I don't have to hear another squad shouting orders from halfway across the map, when people speak it is only broadcast locally, or they can use a radio to broadcast it to anyone else who has a radio.

The other really cool thing with using modular squad choices, is that if a server chose to be "64 players, 32 players, of 256 players" you can just add or remove the "squad numbers" and still have balance.

You could even go as far as to have 2 platoons with 2 squads each and a detachment per platoon, and a company command team (for a total of 80 players per side).

Overall though, making the radio use important encourages those who have mics to migrate to those roles, and be able to disseminate information to the rest of the team (for those without mics), it also makes people reliant on each other for information (such as only the radioman and sergeant having a map), and the commander can't magicly shout over VOIP to the entire team 'ARTILLERY INCOMING' he has to rely on his junior officers to relay information back to him about "hey yeah, so we're all right under that arty strike, call it off fast!"

My 32 cents.
 

K. Steine

Member
Yeah, you do raise a valid point. I was thinking (I believe it was mentioned earlier) that things like medics should be squad-extended classes. So essentially, a player can only see and play as a medic IF in a squad. If the player is not in a squad they will not have the chance to play as a medic. I honestly am very in favor of this or something similar - if we put all the work into a medic class it would be silly to only have it some random-ass pickup kit.

Snipers would be handled different (most likely), if they aren't strictly limited to pickup kits they would still be, as you said, limited to 1-2 per team on a ratio of the players in game. So if the server is not full, and maybe 11 people per side, only 1 person can play as a sniper. If there are 0-10 players on a team, the sniper class is not available. This way it also keeps everyone active and moving until servers really fill up.

I really like the idea behind this. But I was thinking, that the above should imply, but pickup sniper kits should too? But, it might not even spawn depending on the numbers of the server (That can be a thing, right?)

I personally don't much mind on what you guys do with this, but I was thinking that there will be 1-2 snipers per team... You're not always going to get the marksman class! Sniping is something I'm passionate about, and have been doing ever since I knew what an fps was. But it's simply unfair on those whom join the game later than others, because they get free dibbs on any limited class they want.
 

LuckyOne

Member
Vanguard Friend
I don't know how good of an idea is to restrict the use of intra-squad radio. While certainly realistic and great for immersion I fear that clans would just use third-party VOIP and get (another) unfair advantage over public players. But I do like the idea of SL being able to call in arty only if he has his radio man close. And the same goes for markers (I assume that SL will be able to at least place some markers on the map, otherwise keeping the "commander" up to date without a mic would be impossible). Maybe allow inter-squad communication also only if radioman is present. That way the radioman is an important asset, and his radio is a valuable tool to keep the squad in touch with other squads.

And about maps, I'm not really sure if all soldiers carried a map in WW II (I'm quite sure paratroopers did) they would at least get some info in the briefing (although that could be simulated by map loading screen or having a high-res map in the HQ that you can look at before moving out :p).

Don't know about letting commander control gameplay choices. It might feel restricting to the players and also to the mappers (having to take into account all the options).
 

K. Steine

Member
I don't know how good of an idea is to restrict the use of intra-squad radio. While certainly realistic and great for immersion I fear that clans would just use third-party VOIP and get (another) unfair advantage over public players. But I do like the idea of SL being able to call in arty only if he has his radio man close. And the same goes for markers (I assume that SL will be able to at least place some markers on the map, otherwise keeping the "commander" up to date without a mic would be impossible). Maybe allow inter-squad communication also only if radioman is present. That way the radioman is an important asset, and his radio is a valuable tool to keep the squad in touch with other squads.

And about maps, I'm not really sure if all soldiers carried a map in WW II (I'm quite sure paratroopers did) they would at least get some info in the briefing (although that could be simulated by map loading screen or having a high-res map in the HQ that you can look at before moving out :p).

Don't know about letting commander control gameplay choices. It might feel restricting to the players and also to the mappers (having to take into account all the options).

Maybe only the squad leader will have a more detailed map. (Shows objective zones, etc) And everyone else could haave no map, or a not so detailed map. That way, you need to stick with the SL if you want to actually get somewhere.
 

Wittmann

Member
Maybe only the squad leader will have a more detailed map. (Shows objective zones, etc) And everyone else could haave no map, or a not so detailed map. That way, you need to stick with the SL if you want to actually get somewhere.

I agree with that idea, the average German soldier did carry a pocket map (Very little detail, about as large as 3 playing cards. The Map should not show where that soldier is, and shouldn't have anything marked, but just be enough to say "Okay, I'm going North, the road leads.... West? Alright I'm in the wrong place".

You can see the average pocket map in the top-right of this photo.

German_Pocket_Items_1a.jpg

(Stolen from Der Erste Zug)
 
I really don't like the idea of having any pick-up kits at all, it's simply unrealistic. Perhaps if the french resistance were one day in the game then it would be appropriate.
 
a medic would come in handy for some one to carry extra ammo for teamplayers if not there should be an ammo guy pulled of the machine crew
 
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blurr22

Member
I think that classes would be cool and would really help the teamwork aspect of the game. Would be fun to incorporate some.
 

Alberich

Member
I would not recommend including a sniper class in the game. It kills the gameflow. Anyway, 1 sniper per side is enough and realistic. Maybe you could solve this by hiding a sniper kit in the game which can be picked up by only one player?
Anyway- less is more.

Talking about classes in general - less is more. Not every soldier must carry equipment to kill a tank. Less is more.
I any way - Forgotten Hope 2 had it figured out perfectly. Never seen better balance and more immersion in any game since that.
 
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