• Welcome to the Vanguard Community

    These forums date back to the game's origins as the Crysis mod Traction Wars. Over the years the game and internet habits have evolved and discord.gg/vanguardww2 is now the principle home of the community.

    The team continue to read and reply to posts here, but we can be contacted more quickly on Discord.

Realistic suggestions!

Status
Not open for further replies.

VonMudra

Well-known member
Yeah, the M57 was a wonderful design. It is generally considered to be the most ballistically sound metal helmet ever made, however ugly it may be.

Some German helmets WERE thick enough to stop a single .45. Generally the ones from Quist (I have one) were made much thicker and of much better alloys. I would have my doubts though on it stopping more than one in the same spot. However, this is more or less a fluke of issue and construction, and not something common to all steel helmets of WW2, much less a design intent.
 
Yeah, the M57 was a wonderful design. It is generally considered to be the most ballistically sound metal helmet ever made, however ugly it may be.

Some German helmets WERE thick enough to stop a single .45. Generally the ones from Quist (I have one) were made much thicker and of much better alloys. I would have my doubts though on it stopping more than one in the same spot. However, this is more or less a fluke of issue and construction, and not something common to all steel helmets of WW2, much less a design intent.

There is indeed a lot to consider. For example considering that I know that the Mauser rifle itself was made out of low carbon steel(1020-1035 depending on the country, year ect), I highly doubt that the steel helmets of the German army were anything more than mild steel swaged into shape(the swaging ensuring some strength). I Actually just found a wiki article that claims the m1935 and the m1940 helmet models were made out of a molybdenum alloy steel which is a steel designed to improve the ability to harden it. Clever idea, since they can keep a malleable low carbon content and try to harden the thing to cause incoming metal fragments ect to spatter or bounce. From all the information I've been able to find the helmets were JUST at the edge there of stopping the 9mm and .45 acp. This of course makes sense because the helmet needed to be able to stop this **** from flying right through....

shrapnel.jpg
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
This photo doesn't really add to the conversation at all, but I feel I must post it because it's so cool/bone chilling:



Member of the Italian Expeditionary Corps in Russia, 1941. His helmet was hit by a piece of shrapnel right at the edge of the brim.
 

Aniallator

Member
1) Manual bolting and reloading. In just about every FPS, when you've fired the last bullet from your weapon, you automatically reload the weapon. Could this not be the case with TW? I'd like to see all reloading toggled manually, with all weapons. As for bolting, manual bolting's something I would love to see . . . perhaps it'd be something you can disable/enable in the settings, like with Verdun?

2) No jumping, no swimming. None. Jumping with all that gear would be hard as hell, while swimming should be a big no-no. You should also be able to drown, a fate that befell all too many paratroopers on the opening day of Overlord.

3) Lots of small, fluid movements. In TW, I'd like to see similar movements to those of America's Army Proving Grounds;
Q to lean left, E to lean right. While running, toggling crouch should result in you sliding into a crouch. In a similar way, while running, toggling prone should result in you diving into prone. Not just coming to a dead stop and going into a crouch or prone. Going up to a low obstacle (so long as it's not something sharp) and pressing SPACE should result in your vaulting over that obstacle. With any obstacles above waist height, pressing SPACE shoud result in your climbing over that obstacle, so long as the obstacle isn't higher than your chest. Small things like this add a lot. The running animation in Red Orchestra 2 - where you hold your weapon with one hand - is great.

4) Realistic movements and speeds. A little redundant, but I'd like to bring this up. The movements in Verdun, for example, are awful. Those in America's Army Proving Grounds are awesome. So, unless you already have realistic movements in the bag, I would
highly recommend taking a look at those in AAPG; everything from general movement speeds to realistic movements, such as the animation for strafing when prone.

5) Barbed wire dealing damage. In a lot of FPS games, you could hug barbed wire without taking any damage. I hope this isn't the case with TW! Stepping in barbed wire should result in a brief animation, where you pull your leg from the wire. A minute amount of damage should be sustained as well.


6) Multiple ammunition types for mortars. Not AP, but rather HE and phosphorus (smoke) rounds would be fantastic. Phosphorus rounds would be great for supprting advances. On the whole, I'd love to see multiple ammunition types for whatever vehicles/weapons this applies to. You already have this with the No. 1 Mk. III Cup Discharger, having No. 68 grenades as well as Mills bombs.


7) Large matches, lots of players. How many players do you think CryEngine 3 will be able to support with TW? Just more than H&G's eighteen on eighteen, please, because that's just sadistic.


8) Three dimensional voice chat, like that in Rust, for example. This would be realistic, and would help to immerse you in the game.


9) A Radioman/Funker class, equipped with a radio, the Wireless Set No. 38 Mk. II for the British and the Feldfu. b for the Germans. Having radios means having three dimensional voice chat, and, of course, no text chat. Basically, a Radioman/Funker would be able to use his radio to communicate through voice chat with other Radiomen/Funkern and anybody using a radio. I say "anybody using a radio" because I think it'd be neat to have a static radio or two in different places around the map - a bunker, for example - which anybody can use. Of course, whether you're a Radioman/Funker or another class, using any radio should result in you lowering your weapon (and putting the headset on, when using a static radio) and raising the mic. Whenever you transmit, your character's finger could hold the transmit button on the mic in the game . . .


10) Cooking grenades, corner throwing grenades, grenade proning, throwing grenades back . . .


11) Realistic deaths. You get shot, you don't just drop dead. You stagger onto your knees, then collapse onto the ground. You stay standing for a moment, then topple over. You're flung backwards onto the ground. I don't want to just drop instantly and crumple into a heap of shame!


12) No killcam. When you're killed, your vision should blur and fade.


13) Kick votes. You can start a vote to kick a teammate from the match. This would help deal with teamkillers, and anybody spamming the voice chat (assuming it's implemented).


14) Physical compass and map. Rather than toggling the map and having your character unfold a map, how about you toggle the map and your character unfolds a map and takes out a compass? Holds the map with one hand, and the compass in the palm of the other? I just think having a physical compass would be neat . . .


15) Realistic wounding system, one that could incorporate a Medic/Mediziner class. One bullet to the head should be an instant kill. One bullet to the torso should be an instant kill or a severe wounding, depending on ballistics, range, and weapon. One bullet to the arm should be a serious wounding, as should one bullet to the leg. A bullet wound should trigger bleeding, as should a shrapnel wound, so long as the shrapnel wound took around a third of your health; thus, a shrapnel wound that took less than around a third of your health would not trigger bleeding. At full health, you would bleed out in around ten minutes. The lower your health, the faster the bleeding. When bleeding, you should be able to hear your heartbeat, as there won't be a health bar to let you know otherwise. When your health becomes low, the edges of your vision should begin to fade.


One bullet to the arm should result in greater weapon sway and slower running, one bullet to the leg somewhat greater weapon sway and no longer being able to run. For all wounds, your vision should blur with sudden movements. A Medic/Mediziner class would have bandages and morphine. Bandages would stem bleeding to almost nothing, while morphine would decrease the effects of wounds and remove blurring vision. Bandages shouldn't degrade at all, however morphine's effects should wear off after several minutes.

Thoughts?

I could name others, but this list is long enough . . . I apologize if it's a bit much. I hope you'll consider the things I've mentioned.
 
Last edited:

Maniche

Level Designer
Pathfinder Games
1) Manual bolting and reloading

Should be doable but it requires more work, so it's entirely dependent on time.

2) No jumping, no swimming. None. Jumping with all that gear would be hard as hell, while swimming should be a big no-no. You should also be able to drown, a fate that befell all too many paratroopers on the opening day of Overlord.

I'm more in favor of reduced jumping (we got stamina) that prevents really tall jumps, but you should be able to jump a bit up at least. Swimming? Haha, no, don't you worry, it will be impossible.

3) Lots of small, fluid movements.

Remember the mocap-video?

4) Realistic movements and speeds.

We're looking into making it as natural and balanced as possible, and the mocap-data would come handy!

5) Barbed wire dealing damage.

Yes, easily doable.

6) Multiple ammunition types for mortars.

I'm no coder but should be doable quite easily.


7) Large matches, lots of players. How many players do you think CryEngine 3 will be able to support with TW?

It's entirely server-dependent (map-size and how much each player allocate of memory of said server).

8) Three dimensional voice chat, like that in Rust, for example. This would be realistic, and would help to immerse you in the game.

Possibly, it's indeed a very powerful and neat feature!

9) A Radioman/Funker class, equipped with a radio

I can't comment on if they would feature as I don't know the typical setup, but I'm sure [MENTION=147]VonMudra[/MENTION] can pop-by.


10) Cooking grenades, corner throwing grenades, grenade proning, throwing grenades back . . .

I don't know enough about grenades when it comes to "cook-ability", sorry!


11) Realistic deaths. You get shot, you don't just drop dead.

Depending on your speed, you'd drop to the ground real fast if you get killed straight up; it isn't realistic that you'd jitter!

12) No killcam. When you're killed, your vision should blur and fade.

Agreed.

13) Kick votes. .

Need those to kick the bad influences we got around the maps!

14) Physical compass and map.

Check out the HUD-blog!

15) Realistic wounding system, one that could incorporate a Medic/Mediziner class.

This is something I'd personally would love to see! Even if it's not entirely in-depth, just having the option to have a "mini-game" where the medic would run up to a wounded soldier, click a button on the area that needs treatment and patch him up before perhaps carrying him around, would be really neat!

One bullet to the arm should result in greater weapon sway and slower running, one bullet to the leg somewhat greater weapon sway and no longer being able to run. For all wounds, your vision should blur with sudden movements. A Medic/Mediziner class would have bandages and morphine. Bandages would stem bleeding to almost nothing, while morphine would decrease the effects of wounds and remove blurring vision. Bandages shouldn't degrade at all, however morphine's effects should wear off after several minutes.

If such a system gets implemented, we'd make sure to make it realistic, yes.

 

Aniallator

Member
Thanks for the quick reply [MENTION=109]Maniche[/MENTION]! Glad to see these ideas are well-received. Of course, I don't take credit for most or any of them, I guarantee they've been dreamt up before!

2) I guess jumping could be alright, as long as you can't jump very high, and that you have to wait a few seconds between jumps. If so, just make sure you get the gravity right, because jumping in H&G is like jumping on the moon!

3) I do, and it was B-E-A-U-tiful! I have no doubt the movements will be spot on! Poor movement details are a pet peeve of mine in other games, so it's just another reason for me to look forward to TW ;)

4) It will indeed!

11) True, true, often your body just tumbles to the ground. I still think it'd be cool to see some of these though, they are realistic!

14) I have, and you guys have some great ideas for HUD designs! I like the fact that it's basically limited to a magazine counter and the compass/minimap. All things aside, I love the mag counter, but I'm the kind of guy who'll probably never open the compass/minimap to stay completely immersed in the game. All I'm saying with a physical compass/map is that it'd be a neat feature, more for immersion than anything. Still, I sure know I'd use it!

15) Okay, now that would be awesome, going up to a wounded comrade and dressing the wound. If you were to include this and go all-out with detail - I might never play anything else if you did - a kind of medic minigame would be fun. Well, not really a "minigame", but you know what I mean. You'd take a look at the wound and judge how to dress it; equipment for a Medic/Mediziner could be bandages, iodine, morphine, sulfanilamide, sutures, tourniquets, that kind of stuff . . . I'm just being optimistic xD You'd be able to choose what to apply to the wound and in what order, so for example, you'd want to apply sulfanilamide to the wound then apply a bandage, not the other way around, or the sulfanilamide will have no effect. It would mean a lot of detail, though, so if this was implemented, I'd want to see it in the second chapter rather than squeezing it into Overlord.
 

hannibaldinski

TW Developer
14) I have, and you guys have some great ideas for HUD designs! I like the fact that it's basically limited to a magazine counter and the compass/minimap. All things aside, I love the mag counter, but I'm the kind of guy who'll probably never open the compass/minimap to stay completely immersed in the game. All I'm saying with a physical compass/map is that it'd be a neat feature, more for immersion than anything. Still, I sure know I'd use it!

I just want to quote my own dev blog to make you even more happy :D

"To orientate properly you’ll have to pull out a physical map, so you can’t use your weapon at that moment -just as in real life. Depending on your class you’ll have a more or less detailed map."
 

VonMudra

Well-known member
If I may add:

Manual bolting and reloading is actually rather unrealistic. It's a very automatic response in real life to work the bolt after you shoot, or to reload after you run out of ammo entirely. It would be rather inane to require the player to remember to do something that a real life soldier (or anyone working a fire arm) does unconciously, without even thinking about it.

Jumping is very possible with all that gear, I know, I've done it.

People drop like a sack of potatoes when they die. I've seen enough rather graphic videos of warfare (historian, it's a rather depressing part of my job to know what war actually is, not what movies like to say it is) to know how quickly you drop when hit by a round. Cases of guys continuing with multiple bullet wounds do happen- but they are an extreme exception, not the rule. There's a reason why guys like that often win the highest of awards.

Cooking grenades is easily realistic and possible, and mortars will indeed have various ammo types, as will all artillery pieces and tanks.
 
Last edited:

siben

Member
Yeah, the M57 was a wonderful design. It is generally considered to be the most ballistically sound metal helmet ever made, however ugly it may be.

I have one, it needs some getting used to, but just like the swiss model 1918 helmet i have it grows on you. I like them now.

About the big list of sugestions. when shooting bolt action you relead the next bullet without taking much thought on it, you just automaticly lower your rifle and cycle while keeping your eye on target and then raise the rifle again. When taking carefully aimed shots i sometimes notice it cycle after a few seconds, because i want to see the impact first but it also goes automaticaly. Dont make it to complicated or soon you will have to also do things like use your weapon safety switches.

About the grenades, i hope to see many different variants but i am against cooking off grenades. fuses back then where not like now, it was approximate. 5 second fuse worked perfectly well if it exploded already after 3 seconds.
Its simple, press G, grenade animation is started and thrown, long distance. left mouse click, grenade animation for throwing is started, and when you let go it is thrown far. with right mouse the same but thrown short.
 

Aniallator

Member
Just to be clear, I'd like to see an option for manual bolting/reloading, so something you can disable/enable in the settings. I also find that I wait to bolt the gun to see where the shot lands. As for jumping, it needs to be limited in some way to prevent bunny hopping. How about, after jumping, you run out of breath and can't jump again for another few seconds? I guess we'll go with the dropping-like-a-sack-of-potatoes method!

Glad to hear there'll be some options for grenades . . . and that artillery pieces, too, will have multiple ammunition types!
 
Well, you might be able to do bolting the old-fashioned BF1942 way: keep pressing fire button, no bolting. I think this is the easiest method of pleasing both sides.
 

Aniallator

Member
Something that I would really like to see would be showing your weapons when they're not equipped. For example, let's say you're a Rifleman; you're equipped with a Mills bomb, and are about to throw it. Will your character be shown like it would be in many FPS games, unarmed save for whatever weapon he has equipped? In this example, you'd be shown unarmed save for the Mills bomb in your hand? Or will it be realistic like in a few other games, where unequipped weapons are still shown on your person? In this example, your Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. I would be shown slung over your shoulder, and your bayonet would be shown in its scabbard? Showing unequipped weapons would be great!

Also, here's something that I thought would be awesome, something that would really immerse you in the game; being able to see distant planes. Throughout Overlord, the skies of Normandy were frequented by Allied bombers, fighters, and reconnaissance planes, as well as some daring German divebombers and fighters. Now and then, you should be able to see some of these in the distance. You should be able to hear the faint drone of the engine as well. Every now and then, you'd a see a lone PR Mosquito, or a squadron of Hurricanes, or a handful of Bf 109s, or a few Ju 87s. Maybe some 109s and Hurricanes would dogfight in the distance? Whatever's realistic, I guess.
 
Hurricanes were fased out in 1943. They were replaced with the Hawker Typhoon, and later the Tempest. Also, Stukas were relegated to night-time duties, when their low speed and maneuverability weren't as much of a drawback. FW-190's were the most used fighter bomber in the Luftwaffe arsenal in 1944.


Also: I've never heard of planes in CryEngine, so I'm not sure it is entirely possible. But maybe the devs can give you a more definitive answer to that.
 

Mars

Pathfinder Games
There will be some kind of background activity within a few of our levels.

Aircraft is possible in CRYENGINE, like anything else.
 

litchu

Member
There will be some kind of background activity within a few of our levels.

Aircraft is possible in CRYENGINE, like anything else.

Please let a boat crash into an island ( bf4 yay :D )

In all honestly, just having [MENTION=376]calgoblin[/MENTION] create some nice airplane sounds will be good enough for me. In my opinion there is no need to see a physical plane fly over my head all the time, unless you have the much time in your hands ofcourse..
 

Aniallator

Member
Please let a boat crash into an island ( bf4 yay :D )

In all honestly, just having @calgoblin create some nice airplane sounds will be good enough for me. In my opinion there is no need to see a physical plane fly over my head all the time, unless you have the much time in your hands ofcourse..

Well I was thinking that the planes would be in the distance, so they also wouldn't be too hard to create. Just a pretty low poly model would be fine, because they're at such a distance that you wouldn't see much more than the vague shape of an aircraft. Similar to hearing gunfire in the distance, I think seeing distant planes this would help give you the feel that you're actually fighting in Normandy during operation Overlord.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top